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<blockquote data-quote="jtrowell" data-source="post: 4013144" data-attributes="member: 57422">In this kind of situation, the character and monster levels are totally irrevellent.The ogre mage could as well be a great wyrm or a small goblin. The challenge here is not really the monster itself, but the pseudo-trap it represent.The same way, I sometimes use as an exemple an adventure were low level players must sneak around a sleeping adult dragon. (in a large cave, and noise from a nearby kobold village, so the skill check is in fact easy to do by taking 10)Of course, the players once outside the cavern don't get the dragon XP.Should one player manage somehow to have a brillant idea allowing him to bury the dragon in its own cave&nbsp; (and maybe kill, or at least neutralize him for now)&nbsp; (unlikely, but might be possible if I made an error and left some &quot;securoty hole&quot; in the cave description), the player would get an XP bonus of course, but not the dragon XP as expected from his CR. The situation would not have been really less or more dangerous had the dragon been a small one, or the tarrasque itself.So the players get a level-appropriate XP reward.Moreover, We can expect such extreme spells or items to be more controlled : invisibility might be higher level, magic items might have less continuous effects (a helmet of detect invisibility might be only useable a few rounds per day)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jtrowell, post: 4013144, member: 57422"] In this kind of situation, the character and monster levels are totally irrevellent. The ogre mage could as well be a great wyrm or a small goblin. The challenge here is not really the monster itself, but the pseudo-trap it represent. The same way, I sometimes use as an exemple an adventure were low level players must sneak around a sleeping adult dragon. (in a large cave, and noise from a nearby kobold village, so the skill check is in fact easy to do by taking 10) Of course, the players once outside the cavern don't get the dragon XP. Should one player manage somehow to have a brillant idea allowing him to bury the dragon in its own cave (and maybe kill, or at least neutralize him for now) (unlikely, but might be possible if I made an error and left some "securoty hole" in the cave description), the player would get an XP bonus of course, but not the dragon XP as expected from his CR. The situation would not have been really less or more dangerous had the dragon been a small one, or the tarrasque itself. So the players get a level-appropriate XP reward. Moreover, We can expect such extreme spells or items to be more controlled : invisibility might be higher level, magic items might have less continuous effects (a helmet of detect invisibility might be only useable a few rounds per day) [/QUOTE]

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