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<blockquote data-quote="Pinotage" data-source="post: 4107468" data-attributes="member: 15194">I understand that 4e is putting powers into creatures that give them more racial flavor. That's a good thing. Having said that, if you consider most of those powers as, for example, feats, you can build exactly the same mechanical and flavorful creature of the same race in 3e using only classes and feats. Take a look at my earlier example on the kobold dragon shield. It's mechanically identical, and hence has that same racial flavor.I disagree that you can't use 3e feats and classes to add flavor. Perhaps not with classes on their own, but feats and spells can be a powerful tool for creating the same flavor of the 4e creatures. It's a pity that most people don't seem to realise that.But here's a question for 4e monster designers. People keep mentioning that using classes and particularly spellcasters made 3e too complex. But at the same time what would a Level 16 kobold look like in 4e? Can you even create such a creature? Or is 4e aimed at targetting specific creatures at specific levels? I'd like to see more creatures at higher. Of those we've seen, the pit fiend is positively boring compared to its 3e counterpart. Will magical 4e creatures at Level 20 be more exciting than high level 3e creatures and creatures with class levels and hence access to loads of abilities?Pinotage</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pinotage, post: 4107468, member: 15194"] I understand that 4e is putting powers into creatures that give them more racial flavor. That's a good thing. Having said that, if you consider most of those powers as, for example, feats, you can build exactly the same mechanical and flavorful creature of the same race in 3e using only classes and feats. Take a look at my earlier example on the kobold dragon shield. It's mechanically identical, and hence has that same racial flavor. I disagree that you can't use 3e feats and classes to add flavor. Perhaps not with classes on their own, but feats and spells can be a powerful tool for creating the same flavor of the 4e creatures. It's a pity that most people don't seem to realise that. But here's a question for 4e monster designers. People keep mentioning that using classes and particularly spellcasters made 3e too complex. But at the same time what would a Level 16 kobold look like in 4e? Can you even create such a creature? Or is 4e aimed at targetting specific creatures at specific levels? I'd like to see more creatures at higher. Of those we've seen, the pit fiend is positively boring compared to its 3e counterpart. Will magical 4e creatures at Level 20 be more exciting than high level 3e creatures and creatures with class levels and hence access to loads of abilities? Pinotage [/QUOTE]

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