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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AllisterH" data-source="post: 4174561" data-attributes="member: 51325">What exactly about moving succubus to devils makes them incapable of what they were before? I can see why WOTC wanted to have a clearer distinction between demons and devils but I'm not sure the succubus change will get noticed by most people in how they use a succubus.re: Dominate, Wildshape and SummoningEr, it should be noted that the 1e/2e versions of those spells tended to be MUCH, MUCH weaker than the 3E version thus anyone saying 4E is making the game Mickey Mouse has never played 1e/2e.Domination was a 5th level spell and by the time 9th level hit, a PC would fail a save only on a 5 or a 6 (class relating saving throw + wis adjustment + racial bonus + magical items) and by the time 12th level hit, would probably only fail on a 1. Thus, even though Dominate has appeared, for over 30 years, only in 3E did it actually be a threat.Similarly, Polymorph was, shall we say, not as abusive in 1e/2e. Hell it pretty much was useless compared to the tricks we now use it for. You could polymorph into an owl yet it didn't even give you the superior vision of an owl just the locomotion ability. You gained pretty much that until ShapeChange (and Shapechange didn't grant magical abilities OR abilities based on innate intelligence)Wildshape was also MUCH more restricted than the current version for Druids. Largest animal you could become was a black bear and there was no "Natural Spell" feat.As for Monster Summoning, in 1E/2E, the DM selected what monsters the player would get, and it was 2 levels behind the curve (Monster Summoning I was a third level spell that summoned 2d4 1ST-LEVEL) creatures. Again, you can see how MS wasn't as abusive.</blockquote>

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