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<blockquote data-quote="Olgar Shiverstone" data-source="post: 5582272" data-attributes="member: 5868"><p>There are some great ideas here and I applaud the effort and have enjoyed reading the discussion. Here are some of my thoughts to contribute:</p><p></p><p>1. Ability scores. Are you sticking with the D&D six scores? There something to be said for modification and clarification, because Int/Wis tend to get confused, and Cha has always been misunderstood. A relabeling and refocus might help: Strength, Intelligence, Perception, Agility, Health, and Personality (or perhaps Influence). That might make it a little easier to tie skill-type checks to ability scores.</p><p></p><p>2. Wound / Hit points. Perhaps I missed it, but what about using the CON/Health score as the "life point" value, with each class getting some bonus (e.g. +1 for MU or cleric, +2 for Rogue, +3 for fighter) to Con/Health at first level. That provides a little more variation in "life points" and plus room before death, particularly at first level, assuming hit points are class/level related and ablated first, and you only go into life points once hit points are consumed. </p><p></p><p>3. Races. Haven't seen a lot of follow-on race discussion but if you're firmly separating race and class, there should probably be at least a small mechanical value to differentiate choice of race. I'd suggest a small ability adjustment (+1 or +2), and oe or two small flavor abilities. If there some ability system -- I hesitate to use the term feat, but something feat-like -- racial choice might open up options for abilities unique to each race that can be selected at levels. Examples:</p><p></p><p>Human: +1 to any ability at 1st level, Cosmopolitan (+1 of any language), +1 ability/feat (any)</p><p>Elf: +1 to Int, Speak Elven, Proficient with Bows (regardless of class), Woodland affinity (able to follow trails and forage in wooded environment)</p><p>Dwarf: +1 to Con/Health, Speak Dwarf, Proficient with Hammers/Axes, Underground Affinity (able to track underground and detect sloping passages)</p><p>Halfling: +1 to Dex/Agility, Speak Halfling, Proficient with Sling & thrown weapons, Plains affinity (able to track & forage in plains, hills, and grasslands)</p><p>... etc</p><p></p><p>Also, though you have 4 (+) races able to take 4 classes, to capture some of the original BECMI flavor you might consider giving the races some option to take a "Race Paragon" class instead of a standard class that essentially models the Elf, Halfling, etc race-as-class model from BECMI plus simulates the multi-classes from 1E/2E. The "race paragon" class might mix class features from two of the other classes, though each would have to be carefully designed to not overshadow a single class selection. So for example:</p><p></p><p>Elf Paragon Class: Mix of Fighter and Magic-User features</p><p>Halfling Paragon Class: Mix of Fighter and Rogue features</p><p>Dwarf Paragon Class: Mix of Fighter and Cleric features</p><p>Human Paragon Class: Could be a jack-of-all-trades that mixes features from all four classes, or just allows choice of one of the other race's paragon classes</p><p></p><p>(to really get a mix of options, add more races. So the Gnome Paragon becomes the Magic-user/Rogue option, the Half-Orc Paragon becomes Cleric/Rogue, and the Half-Elf Paragon becomes Magic-User/Cleric, etc.)</p><p></p><p>4. Spell casting. With the sorcerer-like casting (spells known and slots per day), how about some added flexibility: you can use up a higher level spell slot to cast an additional spell of a that lower level you know, or you can use up two spell slots of one level to cast an additional spell of the next higher level that you know (some once 3rd level spells are consumed, you can burn 2 2d level spell slots and cast a 3d level instead). That might reduce some of the "Vancian" feel as there is a way to continue casting higher or lower level spells, but at some additional cost. Plus it's simpler than spell points.</p><p></p><p>5. Out of combat/background abilities. There's been discussion of "Profession" skills, what about adding "Craft"-type skills to that list. I'd generate a list of both, define what they apply to, and let the player choose a Profession and Craft at first level. Each level give them a point to improve a Profession or Craft (and existing one, or choose a new one). Each point gives an additional point toward a skill or ability check, but cap the maximum rank in each profession or craft at some reasonable number (say 5 or 10), so that while the expert can focus, there is a limit to the amount of min-maxing that can be done with professions & crafts. Keep profession/craft points separate from other interactions, and have them only affect background-related skill checks and you have a relatively simple system that can allow for tailored background that still have an affect on the game but doesn't overwhelm it. Nor does it force the player to choose between flavor and adventuring utility like the 3.X skill system does with its profession/craft rules.</p><p></p><p>6. Combat.</p><p></p><p>a. Recommend using the 3E/4E cyclic initiative system, d20 based. It's simple and works pretty well.</p><p></p><p>b. I'd use the 4E action system (Attack action, move action, free action) for combat, as it's also simple. Some redefinition might be needed (Attack = make attack(s) or cast a spell, cane be traded for a move action; Move = move your speed or use a class ability, free action = speak).</p><p></p><p>c. Spellcasting & missile use. I'd assume dropping the whole opportunity attack idea for simplicity, but you do probably want a spellcasting or missile use interrupt option. Either ban spellcasting and missile use outright if you're adjacent to an enemy (next square if minis are used, DM's call if not), or better, require the PC to make a skill check (Int or Dex/Agility) to cast a spell or use a missile weapon adjacent to a foe: success and the attack/spell goes off, failure and it does not.</p><p></p><p>d. I'd allow the concept of delayed/readied actions -- so a PC could delay an action in case the enemy spellcaster casts a spell. When the readied action goes off, the PC gets the attack; in the case of interrupting spellcasting if the attack does damage, the spellcaster (or missile firer) must make the above-referenced Int/Dex check to successfully use the spell/missile weapon.</p><p></p><p>e. I'd expand the weapon list slightly, but tie some rules to categories. </p><p></p><p>(1) Melee/Thrown. Large Two handed weapons (greatswords, mauls) would be the only 1d10 (or 2d6 or 1d12?) damage weapons. One handed "martial weapons" (longsword, battle axe, warhammer, flail) would do 1d8 but allow the use of a shield. Smaller one-handed "basic weapons" (short sword, mace, club, rapier) do 1d6 damage and allow the use of a shield, or allow the use of a small weapon as an off-hand weapon for dual wielding. Small weapons (dagger, throwing axe, throwing hammer) do 1d4 damage, but can be thrown, or used as off-hand weapons for dual wielding. [Side note on dual-wield: of restricted to 1d6 + 1d4 weapons, max potential damage is the same as the large two-handed weapons (10), though the average damage is slightly different due to two attack rolls and a bell curve damage versus one attack roll and linear damage. Might want to crunch numbers or play with other abilities so these are equally viable fighting styles. Of course neither allows a shield or would be allowed to provide a defense advantage to keep those options balanced with a 1d8 weapon and shield.] A few weapons might need special categories: spear is 1d8 damage and two-handed but can attack an opponent farther away (reach); quarterstaff is a two-handed 1d8 weapon that can also be used to make two attacks at the player's choice, but when used for two attacks does 1d6 on one attack and 1d4 damage on the second (or maybe instead it's the one 1d8 weapon that also provides +1 to AC since it's two-handed). </p><p></p><p>(2) Missile weapons (not thrown) are all two-handed: Treat heavy crossbow as 1d10, but cannot make more than one attack per round (when fighters gain more attacks) or be used mounted; Longbows are 1d8 and can do multiple attacks, but can't be used mounted. Light crossbow is 1d8, can't make more than one attack per round, but can be used mounted; Short bow and sling do 1d6, can make more than one attack per round and can be used mounted.</p><p></p><p>f. Multiple attack rolls (whether from dual weapons or the fighter's multiple attacks) all happen during a single attack action to keep things simple.</p><p></p><p>g. Combat Advantage: For simplicity I'd use a single +2 modifier to cover all "combat advantage" scenarios for simplicity: attacking from higher ground, flanking a target, attacking a prone/stunned opponent, etc. Anything the DM needs to make a snap ruling on falls under the "Combat advantage" category.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Olgar Shiverstone, post: 5582272, member: 5868"] There are some great ideas here and I applaud the effort and have enjoyed reading the discussion. Here are some of my thoughts to contribute: 1. Ability scores. Are you sticking with the D&D six scores? There something to be said for modification and clarification, because Int/Wis tend to get confused, and Cha has always been misunderstood. A relabeling and refocus might help: Strength, Intelligence, Perception, Agility, Health, and Personality (or perhaps Influence). That might make it a little easier to tie skill-type checks to ability scores. 2. Wound / Hit points. Perhaps I missed it, but what about using the CON/Health score as the "life point" value, with each class getting some bonus (e.g. +1 for MU or cleric, +2 for Rogue, +3 for fighter) to Con/Health at first level. That provides a little more variation in "life points" and plus room before death, particularly at first level, assuming hit points are class/level related and ablated first, and you only go into life points once hit points are consumed. 3. Races. Haven't seen a lot of follow-on race discussion but if you're firmly separating race and class, there should probably be at least a small mechanical value to differentiate choice of race. I'd suggest a small ability adjustment (+1 or +2), and oe or two small flavor abilities. If there some ability system -- I hesitate to use the term feat, but something feat-like -- racial choice might open up options for abilities unique to each race that can be selected at levels. Examples: Human: +1 to any ability at 1st level, Cosmopolitan (+1 of any language), +1 ability/feat (any) Elf: +1 to Int, Speak Elven, Proficient with Bows (regardless of class), Woodland affinity (able to follow trails and forage in wooded environment) Dwarf: +1 to Con/Health, Speak Dwarf, Proficient with Hammers/Axes, Underground Affinity (able to track underground and detect sloping passages) Halfling: +1 to Dex/Agility, Speak Halfling, Proficient with Sling & thrown weapons, Plains affinity (able to track & forage in plains, hills, and grasslands) ... etc Also, though you have 4 (+) races able to take 4 classes, to capture some of the original BECMI flavor you might consider giving the races some option to take a "Race Paragon" class instead of a standard class that essentially models the Elf, Halfling, etc race-as-class model from BECMI plus simulates the multi-classes from 1E/2E. The "race paragon" class might mix class features from two of the other classes, though each would have to be carefully designed to not overshadow a single class selection. So for example: Elf Paragon Class: Mix of Fighter and Magic-User features Halfling Paragon Class: Mix of Fighter and Rogue features Dwarf Paragon Class: Mix of Fighter and Cleric features Human Paragon Class: Could be a jack-of-all-trades that mixes features from all four classes, or just allows choice of one of the other race's paragon classes (to really get a mix of options, add more races. So the Gnome Paragon becomes the Magic-user/Rogue option, the Half-Orc Paragon becomes Cleric/Rogue, and the Half-Elf Paragon becomes Magic-User/Cleric, etc.) 4. Spell casting. With the sorcerer-like casting (spells known and slots per day), how about some added flexibility: you can use up a higher level spell slot to cast an additional spell of a that lower level you know, or you can use up two spell slots of one level to cast an additional spell of the next higher level that you know (some once 3rd level spells are consumed, you can burn 2 2d level spell slots and cast a 3d level instead). That might reduce some of the "Vancian" feel as there is a way to continue casting higher or lower level spells, but at some additional cost. Plus it's simpler than spell points. 5. Out of combat/background abilities. There's been discussion of "Profession" skills, what about adding "Craft"-type skills to that list. I'd generate a list of both, define what they apply to, and let the player choose a Profession and Craft at first level. Each level give them a point to improve a Profession or Craft (and existing one, or choose a new one). Each point gives an additional point toward a skill or ability check, but cap the maximum rank in each profession or craft at some reasonable number (say 5 or 10), so that while the expert can focus, there is a limit to the amount of min-maxing that can be done with professions & crafts. Keep profession/craft points separate from other interactions, and have them only affect background-related skill checks and you have a relatively simple system that can allow for tailored background that still have an affect on the game but doesn't overwhelm it. Nor does it force the player to choose between flavor and adventuring utility like the 3.X skill system does with its profession/craft rules. 6. Combat. a. Recommend using the 3E/4E cyclic initiative system, d20 based. It's simple and works pretty well. b. I'd use the 4E action system (Attack action, move action, free action) for combat, as it's also simple. Some redefinition might be needed (Attack = make attack(s) or cast a spell, cane be traded for a move action; Move = move your speed or use a class ability, free action = speak). c. Spellcasting & missile use. I'd assume dropping the whole opportunity attack idea for simplicity, but you do probably want a spellcasting or missile use interrupt option. Either ban spellcasting and missile use outright if you're adjacent to an enemy (next square if minis are used, DM's call if not), or better, require the PC to make a skill check (Int or Dex/Agility) to cast a spell or use a missile weapon adjacent to a foe: success and the attack/spell goes off, failure and it does not. d. I'd allow the concept of delayed/readied actions -- so a PC could delay an action in case the enemy spellcaster casts a spell. When the readied action goes off, the PC gets the attack; in the case of interrupting spellcasting if the attack does damage, the spellcaster (or missile firer) must make the above-referenced Int/Dex check to successfully use the spell/missile weapon. e. I'd expand the weapon list slightly, but tie some rules to categories. (1) Melee/Thrown. Large Two handed weapons (greatswords, mauls) would be the only 1d10 (or 2d6 or 1d12?) damage weapons. One handed "martial weapons" (longsword, battle axe, warhammer, flail) would do 1d8 but allow the use of a shield. Smaller one-handed "basic weapons" (short sword, mace, club, rapier) do 1d6 damage and allow the use of a shield, or allow the use of a small weapon as an off-hand weapon for dual wielding. Small weapons (dagger, throwing axe, throwing hammer) do 1d4 damage, but can be thrown, or used as off-hand weapons for dual wielding. [Side note on dual-wield: of restricted to 1d6 + 1d4 weapons, max potential damage is the same as the large two-handed weapons (10), though the average damage is slightly different due to two attack rolls and a bell curve damage versus one attack roll and linear damage. Might want to crunch numbers or play with other abilities so these are equally viable fighting styles. Of course neither allows a shield or would be allowed to provide a defense advantage to keep those options balanced with a 1d8 weapon and shield.] A few weapons might need special categories: spear is 1d8 damage and two-handed but can attack an opponent farther away (reach); quarterstaff is a two-handed 1d8 weapon that can also be used to make two attacks at the player's choice, but when used for two attacks does 1d6 on one attack and 1d4 damage on the second (or maybe instead it's the one 1d8 weapon that also provides +1 to AC since it's two-handed). (2) Missile weapons (not thrown) are all two-handed: Treat heavy crossbow as 1d10, but cannot make more than one attack per round (when fighters gain more attacks) or be used mounted; Longbows are 1d8 and can do multiple attacks, but can't be used mounted. Light crossbow is 1d8, can't make more than one attack per round, but can be used mounted; Short bow and sling do 1d6, can make more than one attack per round and can be used mounted. f. Multiple attack rolls (whether from dual weapons or the fighter's multiple attacks) all happen during a single attack action to keep things simple. g. Combat Advantage: For simplicity I'd use a single +2 modifier to cover all "combat advantage" scenarios for simplicity: attacking from higher ground, flanking a target, attacking a prone/stunned opponent, etc. Anything the DM needs to make a snap ruling on falls under the "Combat advantage" category. [/QUOTE]
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