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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4e needs a Definitive Guide
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<blockquote data-quote="Dungeoneer" data-source="post: 6368042" data-attributes="member: 91777"><p>Well I'm glad to see some folks think this is a good idea. Again, my concern is for new groups like the one in the "late to the party" thread where the DM seemed very overwhelmed by all the options. Honestly it is hard to fault him for that, for reasons I outlined in my OP.</p><p></p><p>And it's not just DMs who might be overwhelmed, but players.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would dispute this slightly (I recently had a Swordmage with some White Lotus feats playing at my table and it seemed seriously overpowered). But we're not just concerned with balance here. When I open up the 'feats' section of the character builder I am confronted by <em>hundreds</em> of feats and dozens of powers. Even for an old hand this is a lot to sift through.</p><p></p><p>And the truth is, most of it is crap you won't use.</p><p></p><p>For instance I don't think the feats and powers from Dragon magazine can probably be safely excluded. Most of them are fine balance-wise (although... see previous comments about White Lotus Riposte) but they don't add much to the game. If you don't use them, you won't miss them, although you might notice that building a character is a little faster... </p><p></p><p>I'm also inclined to look sideways at anything from Heroes of Shadow. That book just seems to have issues, period. Another book that has issues is the Red Box/Starter Set, as others have previously stated. I would exclude both of those from an Approved Sources list.</p><p></p><p>I don't think the Essentials classes as a whole are <em>bad</em>... but they're kind of confusing. I have a Fighter, why do I need a Slayer and a Knight? Should I play a Paladin or a Warpriest? Wizard or Mage? These are the questions we should help n00bs answer.</p><p></p><p>I actually think the Mage is a little better than the Wizard, but I haven't really spent time with any of the other e classes. Can anyone speak to that?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dungeoneer, post: 6368042, member: 91777"] Well I'm glad to see some folks think this is a good idea. Again, my concern is for new groups like the one in the "late to the party" thread where the DM seemed very overwhelmed by all the options. Honestly it is hard to fault him for that, for reasons I outlined in my OP. And it's not just DMs who might be overwhelmed, but players. I would dispute this slightly (I recently had a Swordmage with some White Lotus feats playing at my table and it seemed seriously overpowered). But we're not just concerned with balance here. When I open up the 'feats' section of the character builder I am confronted by [I]hundreds[/I] of feats and dozens of powers. Even for an old hand this is a lot to sift through. And the truth is, most of it is crap you won't use. For instance I don't think the feats and powers from Dragon magazine can probably be safely excluded. Most of them are fine balance-wise (although... see previous comments about White Lotus Riposte) but they don't add much to the game. If you don't use them, you won't miss them, although you might notice that building a character is a little faster... I'm also inclined to look sideways at anything from Heroes of Shadow. That book just seems to have issues, period. Another book that has issues is the Red Box/Starter Set, as others have previously stated. I would exclude both of those from an Approved Sources list. I don't think the Essentials classes as a whole are [I]bad[/I]... but they're kind of confusing. I have a Fighter, why do I need a Slayer and a Knight? Should I play a Paladin or a Warpriest? Wizard or Mage? These are the questions we should help n00bs answer. I actually think the Mage is a little better than the Wizard, but I haven't really spent time with any of the other e classes. Can anyone speak to that? [/QUOTE]
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