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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4e, Non-Martial Characters, and Limited Feat Choices
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<blockquote data-quote="N0Man" data-source="post: 4268256" data-attributes="member: 64066"><p>Honestly, I don't think your complaint is greatly exaggerated. It sounds like you made a non-optimal build, and ignored the help given in the PHB for building your character. The 3 Key Abilities for a cleric are Wisdom, <strong>Strength</strong>, and Charisma. The 4E cleric class isn't a primary melee class, but it's designed to be able to at least hold its own with some minor skirmishing. You might want to take note of the fact that many powers of the Clerics do include "Weapon" as a keyword. It's fine if you want to play your Cleric as melee-free, but I think you need to accept that you are imposing a limit on yourself, and that it's unfair to criticize the game system for that.</p><p></p><p>By the description of your character, I wonder if you chose to make your Wisdom 18. You can do that and get 2 other stats at 13 or above (as you described), but that's it. You will have base level Int, Dex, and Str (which again goes along with what you describe). If you did this, then again you have to realize that you are getting a bonus in one thing at a pretty big cost elsewhere. The cost of going from 16 to 18 is the same as the cost of going from 10 to 15 on another stat. So, if you made that kind of sacrifice to gain that kind of attribute focus, you have to expect it to limit yourself in other ways.</p><p></p><p>Maybe you didn't go for a starting Wisdom of 20, and I'm totally wrong on that guess. Though, if you didn't go for a 20 Wis, then it should have been pretty easy to get 3 skills above 13 (even if you did still insist on getting more than 13 for Con).</p><p></p><p>However, I would have considered revising that concept a tiny bit. If you had picked up just 13 in Str (again, a Cleric Key Ability) then you would open heavier armors to help protect you. You could pick up Light Shield as well. You still don't have to be a melee character, but it can allow you a little extra defense.</p><p></p><p>You would open up the ability to multiclass, such as take the Warlord multiclass and then one encounter a day, you can get a 3rd heal. At level 4, you could swap an encounter power to gain another power for utility or more healing.</p><p></p><p>Plus, picking up skill feats are not bad options at all. Your Wisdom will compliment your Dungeoneering nicely. Nature is also Wisdom based, and has the benefit of opening up additional Rituals. </p><p></p><p>I'm also kind of baffled as to why you'd be so dismissive to Toughness. It might not be an exciting power, but <em>"only one level worth of HP"</em>??? How many levels worth of hit points would it take to make a feat useful? I think 1 extra level of hit points is pretty nice!</p><p></p><p>In addition, it really stuck out when you said that you aren't going ot pick Dodge Giants because there aren't any Giants in the Keep... It's not just for Giants, it's for large creatures, and are you seriously picking your feats just based on your current adventure?</p><p></p><p>It would be nice if there were a small number more caster feats that were based on Wis or Cha, but I think you are limiting yourself unnecessarily on some of these options.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N0Man, post: 4268256, member: 64066"] Honestly, I don't think your complaint is greatly exaggerated. It sounds like you made a non-optimal build, and ignored the help given in the PHB for building your character. The 3 Key Abilities for a cleric are Wisdom, [b]Strength[/b], and Charisma. The 4E cleric class isn't a primary melee class, but it's designed to be able to at least hold its own with some minor skirmishing. You might want to take note of the fact that many powers of the Clerics do include "Weapon" as a keyword. It's fine if you want to play your Cleric as melee-free, but I think you need to accept that you are imposing a limit on yourself, and that it's unfair to criticize the game system for that. By the description of your character, I wonder if you chose to make your Wisdom 18. You can do that and get 2 other stats at 13 or above (as you described), but that's it. You will have base level Int, Dex, and Str (which again goes along with what you describe). If you did this, then again you have to realize that you are getting a bonus in one thing at a pretty big cost elsewhere. The cost of going from 16 to 18 is the same as the cost of going from 10 to 15 on another stat. So, if you made that kind of sacrifice to gain that kind of attribute focus, you have to expect it to limit yourself in other ways. Maybe you didn't go for a starting Wisdom of 20, and I'm totally wrong on that guess. Though, if you didn't go for a 20 Wis, then it should have been pretty easy to get 3 skills above 13 (even if you did still insist on getting more than 13 for Con). However, I would have considered revising that concept a tiny bit. If you had picked up just 13 in Str (again, a Cleric Key Ability) then you would open heavier armors to help protect you. You could pick up Light Shield as well. You still don't have to be a melee character, but it can allow you a little extra defense. You would open up the ability to multiclass, such as take the Warlord multiclass and then one encounter a day, you can get a 3rd heal. At level 4, you could swap an encounter power to gain another power for utility or more healing. Plus, picking up skill feats are not bad options at all. Your Wisdom will compliment your Dungeoneering nicely. Nature is also Wisdom based, and has the benefit of opening up additional Rituals. I'm also kind of baffled as to why you'd be so dismissive to Toughness. It might not be an exciting power, but [i]"only one level worth of HP"[/i]??? How many levels worth of hit points would it take to make a feat useful? I think 1 extra level of hit points is pretty nice! In addition, it really stuck out when you said that you aren't going ot pick Dodge Giants because there aren't any Giants in the Keep... It's not just for Giants, it's for large creatures, and are you seriously picking your feats just based on your current adventure? It would be nice if there were a small number more caster feats that were based on Wis or Cha, but I think you are limiting yourself unnecessarily on some of these options. [/QUOTE]
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