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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 4269182" data-attributes="member: 29014">Several people have mentioned this Str-tertiary thing, but it's not the case that it would help the character.  Actually, the advice from the PH to make Str tertiary is not helpful in this case.  I did indeed see it, but it would not have helped.  It opens up one good feat option (Light Shield Proficiency) at an incredible cost that is not worth it.Let's say that I was going to make Strength my tertiary stat, following their advice exactly and having Wis and Cha highest and then Str next.  Right now, my tertiary is Con.  I need 5 points to get Strength up to 13.  So I'll keep My Wis and Cha and lower Con until I have 13 Str.The net gain from this is that I can take Light Shield Proficiency now if I want (unfortunately, I still can't take any of the other armour feats because they also use Con or Heavy Shield uses 15 Str).What do I lose?  First off, -4 HP (and thus 1 less per surge), -2 surges per day, -2 to Fort saves.  That's nearly the same as saying that my character gets Toughness (4/5 of it at least), Durable, and Great Fort (which is a Paragon feat) as three free bonus feats over the Str tertiary character.  I also lose -2 to hit with my Star Warlock multiclass.  The Str tertiary character still has Str that is far too low to actually use Str Cleric powers enough to choose them, so the gain from that is negligible.So no, I'd say the advice they give is unwise to follow.  As I mentioned above, the character could be reasonably effective without feats.  It's annoying not to be able to pick any feats, but it doesn't mean she's weak.  In fact, I'd posit that if she grabs three Skill Trainings or something for more versatility, she'll be strictly better than a Cleric who listened to them and took Str and then had to grab Toughness, Durable, and Great Fortitude to make up the lost ground.  I've never argued that my Cleric can't be effective--It's the constrained choices that are quite annoying.</blockquote>

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