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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4e players who converted to 5th edition
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6474258" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>I didn't start in 4e, but it's been my edition of choice for its entire life-cycle, and I have a lot of love for its math chassis, which is kind of a thing of beauty. </p><p></p><p>For me, 5e has been more open, faster, and less finnicky. 4e had a lot of tiny little moving parts that were sometimes CRAZY important, and each word had to be studied carefully to find both intent and purpose. 5e is looser, more comfortable, less exacting. 5e isn't as philosophically monolithic as 4e was, there's less things that are "wrong to do." </p><p></p><p>I'm still not entirely clear that 5e can give me the numbers I'm looking for, so while I'm enjoying 5e, I've got some doubts about its adaptability and longevity at this early stage. The DMG didn't exactly give me what I was looking for in that regard. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Accounting for the different ruleset, you can get a lot of the same effects.</p><p></p><p>Tide of Iron = "I hit the guy and push him back" = Shove + Action Surge (or Extra Attack)</p><p></p><p>Commander Strike = "I give my attack to someone else" = ....um, the <strong><em>Commander's Strike</em></strong> maneuver.</p><p></p><p>Wolf Pack Tactics = "I move my ally around" = the <strong><em>Maneuvering Attack</em></strong> maneuver.</p><p></p><p>Sly Flourish doesn't have an easy analogue thanks to 5e's "realism" (being persuasive and personable doesn't mean that you can stab things better), but its ultimate purpose, to encourage a rogue character to have a high CHA and a high DEX, is largely served in 5e by not having ability scores bear so much weight and by approaching adventures on three pillars (Charisma is an intrinsic reward, and doesn't need extrinsic enhancements). </p><p></p><p>The above may or may not meet certain players' requirements in certain ways, but they're rough analogues, and achieve many of the same functions, even if not via precisely the same in-game processes that 4e used.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you're lookin' for low-level one-hit minions, try a few CR 0 critters -- those critters have about 1 hp each, and aren't too hard to use 5-10 at a time. </p><p></p><p>The lack of low-level combat complexity is totally there, but my impression is that it's intentional -- 5e seems to be making a conscious effort to make level 16 feel a lot different from level 3, and I think part of what's at work there is that a level 3 fight isn't going to be as epic and involved as a high-level fight. Fits with 5e's "zero to hero" track, too. </p><p></p><p>The trick'll be in finding what the sweet spot is, starting there, and then making that sweet spot last by not giving out XP. It's simple enough, though the DMG doesn't talk much about stuff like "what level must I be at to have an epic encounter?"</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6474258, member: 2067"] I didn't start in 4e, but it's been my edition of choice for its entire life-cycle, and I have a lot of love for its math chassis, which is kind of a thing of beauty. For me, 5e has been more open, faster, and less finnicky. 4e had a lot of tiny little moving parts that were sometimes CRAZY important, and each word had to be studied carefully to find both intent and purpose. 5e is looser, more comfortable, less exacting. 5e isn't as philosophically monolithic as 4e was, there's less things that are "wrong to do." I'm still not entirely clear that 5e can give me the numbers I'm looking for, so while I'm enjoying 5e, I've got some doubts about its adaptability and longevity at this early stage. The DMG didn't exactly give me what I was looking for in that regard. Accounting for the different ruleset, you can get a lot of the same effects. Tide of Iron = "I hit the guy and push him back" = Shove + Action Surge (or Extra Attack) Commander Strike = "I give my attack to someone else" = ....um, the [B][I]Commander's Strike[/I][/B][I][/I] maneuver. Wolf Pack Tactics = "I move my ally around" = the [B][I]Maneuvering Attack[/I][/B][I][/I] maneuver. Sly Flourish doesn't have an easy analogue thanks to 5e's "realism" (being persuasive and personable doesn't mean that you can stab things better), but its ultimate purpose, to encourage a rogue character to have a high CHA and a high DEX, is largely served in 5e by not having ability scores bear so much weight and by approaching adventures on three pillars (Charisma is an intrinsic reward, and doesn't need extrinsic enhancements). The above may or may not meet certain players' requirements in certain ways, but they're rough analogues, and achieve many of the same functions, even if not via precisely the same in-game processes that 4e used. If you're lookin' for low-level one-hit minions, try a few CR 0 critters -- those critters have about 1 hp each, and aren't too hard to use 5-10 at a time. The lack of low-level combat complexity is totally there, but my impression is that it's intentional -- 5e seems to be making a conscious effort to make level 16 feel a lot different from level 3, and I think part of what's at work there is that a level 3 fight isn't going to be as epic and involved as a high-level fight. Fits with 5e's "zero to hero" track, too. The trick'll be in finding what the sweet spot is, starting there, and then making that sweet spot last by not giving out XP. It's simple enough, though the DMG doesn't talk much about stuff like "what level must I be at to have an epic encounter?" [/QUOTE]
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