Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
4e players, why do you want 5e?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 5922402" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>4e Classic (4eC) sings with the right group, but requires a high degree of player buy-in to get the results that I want out of it. I tend to view 4eC as a visceral game about violently capable individuals who set out willingly or not to irrevocably enact change in their worlds who end up becoming mythic figures in their own right. This is highly reinforced in the assumed setting of the game with the backdrop of the Dawn War, tales of the fall of civilizations, and highly active Gods, Demon Princes, Primordials, etc. 4eC presents a world on fire in desperate need of heroes. Thematically it strikes the same currents that Greek Myth, the Diablo games, and Exalted does though tied to a more mortal perspective. </p><p></p><p>Of course to really embrace these aspects players need to be able to shift between awareness of the game's narrative to engaging its combat encounter mini-game while remaining focused on the underlying fiction. 4eC asks a lot out of the players, but I find the relatively unique combination of satisfying my narrative jones while engaging my tactical/strategic mind incredibly refreshing. That being said sometimes I want other things from games.</p><p></p><p>I'm not interested in 5e because I want a replacement for any particular game. I don't want AD&D. I don't want 3e/PF. I don't want 4e. The label Dungeons and Dragons doesn't really mean that much to me. Every version I've played has felt remarkably different even during the course of the edition's life cycle. What I want is a game that skews closer to Classic D&D/AD&D's core narrative of brave/foolish people who wander the world bravely exploring the unexplored reaches and I want it to stay more grounded to the fiction than 4eC. I want something more grounded in the wild west than greek myth. Still I don't want to give up balanced classes, levels as a meaningful measure of power, or the ability to add some narrative flushes. What can I say - I'm incredibly picky.</p><p></p><p>That being said what I've seen of the play test does fix some of the issues that I have with 4e</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Removing scaling of attacks and defenses. Scaling issues have mucked up every edition of D&D since the beginning of time. Scaling both accuracy/defense and hp/damage isn't aestheticly pleasing to me, espicially with the mixed metaphor that hp represent in all editions of D&D. It also leads to game elements that cannot reasonably be intereacted with. I really like the idea that I can use the same stat block to represent a minimal threat as a life threatening one at different parts of a character's life cycle and still have that creature meaningfully interact with the PCs in the rules.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The end of pick and choose feats. I'm a fan of character customization, but found the implementation of feats in both 3e and 4e decidely lacking. The morass of surfing through prerequisites in 3e was a headache that required way too much time and effort on a player's part. 4e feats drifted into being way too class specific. In both the balance point of individual feats was way too granular. Plus in a class based system not typed strongly enough towards actual archetypes.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I heart 5e backgrounds. We finally have skills that are not tied to explicitly to class. My fighter can be a priest without possessing divine powers. My cleric can be a divinely inspired knight. It also ties skills together into meaningful packages that mean something in the game world. I also really dig traits.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4e showed me that there is something left to be desired when we silo abilities too strongly. 4e balanced characters in combat, but certain archetypes don't have a lot of conceptual space for out of combat viability. This left the fighter in somewhat of a rut. I prefer characters that are competent in all 3 pillars but who excel in their specialty.</li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 5922402, member: 16586"] 4e Classic (4eC) sings with the right group, but requires a high degree of player buy-in to get the results that I want out of it. I tend to view 4eC as a visceral game about violently capable individuals who set out willingly or not to irrevocably enact change in their worlds who end up becoming mythic figures in their own right. This is highly reinforced in the assumed setting of the game with the backdrop of the Dawn War, tales of the fall of civilizations, and highly active Gods, Demon Princes, Primordials, etc. 4eC presents a world on fire in desperate need of heroes. Thematically it strikes the same currents that Greek Myth, the Diablo games, and Exalted does though tied to a more mortal perspective. Of course to really embrace these aspects players need to be able to shift between awareness of the game's narrative to engaging its combat encounter mini-game while remaining focused on the underlying fiction. 4eC asks a lot out of the players, but I find the relatively unique combination of satisfying my narrative jones while engaging my tactical/strategic mind incredibly refreshing. That being said sometimes I want other things from games. I'm not interested in 5e because I want a replacement for any particular game. I don't want AD&D. I don't want 3e/PF. I don't want 4e. The label Dungeons and Dragons doesn't really mean that much to me. Every version I've played has felt remarkably different even during the course of the edition's life cycle. What I want is a game that skews closer to Classic D&D/AD&D's core narrative of brave/foolish people who wander the world bravely exploring the unexplored reaches and I want it to stay more grounded to the fiction than 4eC. I want something more grounded in the wild west than greek myth. Still I don't want to give up balanced classes, levels as a meaningful measure of power, or the ability to add some narrative flushes. What can I say - I'm incredibly picky. That being said what I've seen of the play test does fix some of the issues that I have with 4e [LIST] [*]Removing scaling of attacks and defenses. Scaling issues have mucked up every edition of D&D since the beginning of time. Scaling both accuracy/defense and hp/damage isn't aestheticly pleasing to me, espicially with the mixed metaphor that hp represent in all editions of D&D. It also leads to game elements that cannot reasonably be intereacted with. I really like the idea that I can use the same stat block to represent a minimal threat as a life threatening one at different parts of a character's life cycle and still have that creature meaningfully interact with the PCs in the rules. [*]The end of pick and choose feats. I'm a fan of character customization, but found the implementation of feats in both 3e and 4e decidely lacking. The morass of surfing through prerequisites in 3e was a headache that required way too much time and effort on a player's part. 4e feats drifted into being way too class specific. In both the balance point of individual feats was way too granular. Plus in a class based system not typed strongly enough towards actual archetypes. [*]I heart 5e backgrounds. We finally have skills that are not tied to explicitly to class. My fighter can be a priest without possessing divine powers. My cleric can be a divinely inspired knight. It also ties skills together into meaningful packages that mean something in the game world. I also really dig traits. [*]4e showed me that there is something left to be desired when we silo abilities too strongly. 4e balanced characters in combat, but certain archetypes don't have a lot of conceptual space for out of combat viability. This left the fighter in somewhat of a rut. I prefer characters that are competent in all 3 pillars but who excel in their specialty. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
4e players, why do you want 5e?
Top