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4e players, why do you want 5e?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5926419" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>I'd have said that more so than msot other games, <em>D&D</em> players tend to get sheet obsession. "How do you solve this problem?" *Wizard starts reading down his page long spell list* I've never seen <em>GURPS</em> character sheets that were as long as 3.X ones used to get. 4e players get sheet obession <em>in combat</em>.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>And certain ones (Inherent Bonusses) should have been default.</p><p> </p><p>For that matter I think that 4e is in need of a 4.5 and has almost come to the end of its possible material anyway. (No, Essentials isn't 4.5, and yes 3.5 was an entire new edition - when you've changed the shape of a horse you're way into new edition territory, whereas Essentials is a glorified splat book).</p><p></p><p>One of the things 4.5 could do would be to strip the plusses from <em>all</em> the items. Inherent bonusses only. No +1 every two levels (merely a +1 to hit and NADs about every three as you roll up the expertise feats and inherent bonusses). Monsters get +1 every two levels to their attacks and defences...</p><p> </p><p>And fundamentally the problem isn't that 4e items are uninteresting. It's that people see the tables and multiple levels and their eyes glaze over. Properties and effects mean much more than simple plusses (although a small plus as something really exceptional is itself interesting).</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>To me that appears to be where you're going wrong. I have literally never told my PCs they are in a skill challenge or how many successes they need or even how many they have. I'm sure certain of my players can and do work it out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5926419, member: 87792"] I'd have said that more so than msot other games, [I]D&D[/I] players tend to get sheet obsession. "How do you solve this problem?" *Wizard starts reading down his page long spell list* I've never seen [I]GURPS[/I] character sheets that were as long as 3.X ones used to get. 4e players get sheet obession [I]in combat[/I]. And certain ones (Inherent Bonusses) should have been default. For that matter I think that 4e is in need of a 4.5 and has almost come to the end of its possible material anyway. (No, Essentials isn't 4.5, and yes 3.5 was an entire new edition - when you've changed the shape of a horse you're way into new edition territory, whereas Essentials is a glorified splat book). One of the things 4.5 could do would be to strip the plusses from [I]all[/I] the items. Inherent bonusses only. No +1 every two levels (merely a +1 to hit and NADs about every three as you roll up the expertise feats and inherent bonusses). Monsters get +1 every two levels to their attacks and defences... And fundamentally the problem isn't that 4e items are uninteresting. It's that people see the tables and multiple levels and their eyes glaze over. Properties and effects mean much more than simple plusses (although a small plus as something really exceptional is itself interesting). To me that appears to be where you're going wrong. I have literally never told my PCs they are in a skill challenge or how many successes they need or even how many they have. I'm sure certain of my players can and do work it out. [/QUOTE]
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