Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
4E reminded me how much I like 3E
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Wulf Ratbane" data-source="post: 4423344" data-attributes="member: 94"><p>This is exactly the problem.</p><p></p><p>It is reasonable to expect the NPCs in a published work to be "John Cooper" flawless. They have the time to get it right.</p><p></p><p>But that is not at all the same thing as saying that the NPCs <strong>must be</strong> 100% by the book or your game is going to fall apart.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, 4e tells me that I can break the rules, and that it's ok for <em>my</em> monsters to use different rules than the <em>players'</em> PCs, and that if there's something that's not relevant to the statblock, throw it out. Everyone lauds this brilliant revolution in game design!</p><p></p><p>So I am not exactly certain how it was that I managed to do this in 3e.</p><p></p><p>My NPCs don't even <em>have skills</em> until such time as they <em>need</em> skills. Wanna cast defensively? POOF! My spellcaster has maxxed his Concentration ranks. Need to tumble around combat? POOF! My rogue has Tumble. Need to bring your turned undead back under your control? POOF! The evil priest has 5 ranks of Religion and gets +2 to his Turn check. </p><p></p><p>I'll run out of "needs" long before I run out of "ranks." (Usually, because the NPC is dead.)</p><p></p><p>But if I'm not casting defensively, not tumbling, not turning any undead, I really don't tear my hair out worrying where even their first skill point is allocated, let alone every last niggling rank. </p><p></p><p>About those spellscasters? Same thing. I've played enough spellcasters over the years to know what the usual spell array looks like. I don't need to write down <em>magic missile</em> ahead of time to know that my evil wizard will have it prepared; and if my evil wizard casts <em>magic missile</em> three times in one combat, then that's what he must have prepared for the day. I don't need to write down <em>shield of faith</em> and <em>resist elements</em> and <em>prayer</em> to know that my evil priest will cast them, given the opportunity. </p><p></p><p>And no, my spellcasters aren't pulling weird "strangely applicable" stuff out of their ass just because I feel like it.</p><p></p><p>80-90% of the time every spellcaster has the same "go to" spells.</p><p></p><p>One last comment about published adventures, which often come with lists of prepared spells. Here the same rules apply. If I want to use a spell written down, I use it. If I want to use the same spell again, I'll cross off a different spell. If I want to use a spell not on the list, I'll cross off a different spell.</p><p></p><p>It's easy, and I needed no formal training, no explicit rules, and certainly no explicit <em>permission</em> from WotC to run my game in this fashion.</p><p></p><p>If 3e is too much hard work for you, by and large it's because you are making it too hard on yourself. It is far too easy to obsess over the details.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wulf Ratbane, post: 4423344, member: 94"] This is exactly the problem. It is reasonable to expect the NPCs in a published work to be "John Cooper" flawless. They have the time to get it right. But that is not at all the same thing as saying that the NPCs [b]must be[/b] 100% by the book or your game is going to fall apart. So, 4e tells me that I can break the rules, and that it's ok for [i]my[/i] monsters to use different rules than the [i]players'[/i] PCs, and that if there's something that's not relevant to the statblock, throw it out. Everyone lauds this brilliant revolution in game design! So I am not exactly certain how it was that I managed to do this in 3e. My NPCs don't even [i]have skills[/i] until such time as they [i]need[/i] skills. Wanna cast defensively? POOF! My spellcaster has maxxed his Concentration ranks. Need to tumble around combat? POOF! My rogue has Tumble. Need to bring your turned undead back under your control? POOF! The evil priest has 5 ranks of Religion and gets +2 to his Turn check. I'll run out of "needs" long before I run out of "ranks." (Usually, because the NPC is dead.) But if I'm not casting defensively, not tumbling, not turning any undead, I really don't tear my hair out worrying where even their first skill point is allocated, let alone every last niggling rank. About those spellscasters? Same thing. I've played enough spellcasters over the years to know what the usual spell array looks like. I don't need to write down [i]magic missile[/i] ahead of time to know that my evil wizard will have it prepared; and if my evil wizard casts [i]magic missile[/i] three times in one combat, then that's what he must have prepared for the day. I don't need to write down [i]shield of faith[/i] and [i]resist elements[/i] and [i]prayer[/i] to know that my evil priest will cast them, given the opportunity. And no, my spellcasters aren't pulling weird "strangely applicable" stuff out of their ass just because I feel like it. 80-90% of the time every spellcaster has the same "go to" spells. One last comment about published adventures, which often come with lists of prepared spells. Here the same rules apply. If I want to use a spell written down, I use it. If I want to use the same spell again, I'll cross off a different spell. If I want to use a spell not on the list, I'll cross off a different spell. It's easy, and I needed no formal training, no explicit rules, and certainly no explicit [i]permission[/i] from WotC to run my game in this fashion. If 3e is too much hard work for you, by and large it's because you are making it too hard on yourself. It is far too easy to obsess over the details. Of course. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
4E reminded me how much I like 3E
Top