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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ZombieRoboNinja" data-source="post: 4068588" data-attributes="member: 54843">Hmm, I'd say that you are making a mistake by defining "class" in such a loose way. "A skillful individual who survives by his wits"? That sounds like an "adventurer" to me. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Personally, I don't mind a little restriction in the base class, provided that there are clear ways to extend those core archetypes (like by spending feats on new armor and weapon proficiencies or multiclassing). The issue is that many D&D characters tend towards whatever is most combat-effective. A specific example: an awful lot of 3e rogues start out with a chain shirt and a shortsword, simply because those have slightly better combat stats for a level 1 rogue than leather and a dagger. WotC has limited options here: they either do nothing, so that people who want to play an "iconic" rogue in leather with a dagger have to take a minor hit to combat effectiveness, or they can specifically design the class to highlight its "iconic" instantiation. The latter is clearly what they're doing in 4e by limiting weapon and armor proficiencies and giving rogues a minor bonus to daggers. Now, in 4e, the onus is on people who want to play non-iconic rogues to expend some feats to do so. I get that you don't like this highly-focused form of class design. What you have to bear in mind is that a lot of people actually take roleplaying inspiration from their class, rather than deciding their class and "build" based on an exhaustively compiled character history. Heck, I'm guessing half the paladins I've played with didn't even know their deity's holy symbol. For these people, it's easier to start with a well-defined archetype and expand it strategically, rather than starting with a broad sketch and narrowing it strategically.</blockquote>

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