Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="kennew142" data-source="post: 4068661" data-attributes="member: 18490">You still haven't explained how the 4e rogue tells you how you have to play the character. You assert that it is true. Exactly what in the 4e rogue information we've been given indicates that rogues (or any character for that manner) will be forced to counter every threat with force? They have bluff, insight and streetwise on their class skill list. We don't know for sure what the last two skills are, but given that streetwise is a CHA based skill, it would make little sense for it to be useful only in combat. As for bluff, it would be hard to imagine that this skill is only for combat.I would also argue that it is objectively bad design to nerf a character class in combat just so you can make it better in non-combat areas.Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you been arguing that this design is a step backwards for the rogue? I fail to see how it is a step backwards for the class to not be completely ineffectual in such a major component of the game as combat? Especially when there is no evidence whatsoever for your assertion that the class has lost any non-combat effectiveness. I guess you could argue that they don't have diplomacy (the non-magical mind control skill) anymore. They still have bluff, which can be used to trick opponents. At least that's the way the skill works now, and it's the denotative meaning of the word.It is a straw man argument because you are arguing that it is a step backwards in the design of character classes in 4e. It can't be a step backward if the previous edition is just as bad, or worse, in the same ways. You claim that the class has been nerfed in non-combat situations and that all rogue players will be forced to deal with every encounter using force. None of these arguments can be logically construed from the preview material given. Therefore, you are arguing against a false construction of the 4e rogue class that you have created. It is the very definition of a straw man argument.</blockquote>

Verification