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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4069934" data-attributes="member: 4937">This seems to be a very recently invented problem.  Or at the very least, its an inversion of by far the more common complaint against 3.X.My impression is that far more people are upset by the range of combat effectiveness which a player with system mastery can attain in build far above that of a new player than they are with the risk that a character might not be optimally combat effective.  I mean, there are ways to build 3.X characters using only WotC material that do millions of points of damage in a single round.  The fact that some hypothetical character A is doing a handle of points below the expected damage is a comparitively small problem.  In fact, if we consider the sample characters in the DMG to be 'the expected level of combat effectiveness', I doubt much anyone was building signficantly combat weaker characters with some sort of group consensus to play in a very different way than normal.  The more usual complaint is that unless you had system mastery, classes like rogue would quickly reach a point where they could not hit opponents in thier expect CR range.  This was especially true of 3.5 where the higher CR creatures had been refactored to take into account the unexpectedly high effectiveness of high CR characters.The more usual complaint against 3rd edition was I thought that there was an endless series of splatbooks and player options which had gone through insufficient playtesting, an endless series of new core classes and new PrC's designed to allow for character creation options not really possible in the core rules, and that these would synergize in unexpected ways, and that all this contributed to making the game too complex and not particularly fun at higher levels.How long do you think the math is really going to stay fixed if we have 30 base classes and 250 paragon paths?  How streamlined do you think the rules will stay if the game is designed right from the beginning such that you have to expand into new territory to create archetypal characters of one sort or another?</blockquote>

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