D&D 4E 4E Roles and Classes

[FreeXenon]

I think I have a good idea as to how 4E Roles and Classes will work. I was falling asleep and my mind was wandering and this is what I came up with. With all of the previews this is what my crazy thoughts have put together especially in light of the Star Wars mechanics and the previews.

Call me crazy. Feel free to denounce me. If this is what it is going to be like I love it with everything including my pee pee.

Role
I think first you will pick you role Defender, Controller, Striker, or Leader and that will determine your base starting HP, BAB, base number of starting skills, saves, a small amount of starting feats (armor and weapons perhaps), and a few skills that will be available to you (Striker - stealth and perception perhaps).

Power Source
Then you will pick your Power Source. Your power source will give you a few skills that are available to you (Arcane - add Concentration, Spell Craft and Know [Arcane], and just perhaps modify your base role properties such as reduce the HD by 1 step for Arcane Power Source to a minimum of d4 for example.

Talents
There will be talents that are only available to each power source.
There will be talents that are only available to each role.
There will be talents that are only available to each role and power source combination.

Professions
Classes will be renamed to professions and will be similar to kits in 2E and will be like window dressing and flavor over the Class/Power Source Combo. They will come with class skills that are available and some starting feats, Feats and Talents that are available only to this profession.

The Fighter will be a profession will be available to Martial Defenders and will have some specialization feats/Talents.

Multiclassing
Multiclassing will work best with classes of the same power source.
The Ranger which is rumored to be the Divine Striker which could be combined with Cleric which is rumored to be the Divine Leader. A Ranger 4/Cleric3 will have a caster level of 7 and cast spells most likely as a 4rth level cleric.

If you mix Power source they will combine at a reduced rate - say 1/4 as an example so that you investment is not a total loss.

If this is not how it is done directly in the PHB this may be how it is done behind the scenes
...or something like that....

These are just some crazy thoughts. What do you think?

 

[Crashy75]

I think I have a good idea as to how 4E Roles and Classes will work. I was falling asleep and my mind was wandering and this is what I came up with. With all of the previews this is what my crazy thoughts have put together especially in light of the Star Wars mechanics.
Call me crazy. Feel free to denounce me. If this is what it is going to be like I love it with everything including my pee pee.

You are CRAZY! Oh, perhaps I should read it first...

Role
I think first you will pick you role Defender, Controller, Striker, or Leader and that will determine your base starting HP, BAB, base number of starting skills, saves, a small amount of starting feats (armor and weapons perhaps), and a few skills that will be available to you (Striker - stealth and perception perhaps).

Hmmmm... maybe. I'm fairly certain that the warlord, assuming it's in, will be a leader along with the cleric, which I believe is confirmed. Going just by the names I don't feel these two classes should have the same chassis. Really, I'm hoping they cloister the cleric a little.

Power Source
Then you will pick your Power Source. Your power source will give you a few skills that are available to you (Arcane - add Concentration, Spell Craft and Know [Arcane], and just perhaps modify your base role properties such as reduce the HD by 1 step for Arcane Power Source to a minimum of d4 for example.

Ok. I see where you are going with this. Perhaps I should have read the whole post before replying. I haven't seen a class selection section yet. I do believe class selection will be much less modular than this. I believe that each class will have some mention of what roll it is intended to fill rather than this method of selection. Anything is possible however.

Talents
There will be talents that are only available to each power source.
There will be talents that are only available to each role.
There will be talents that are only available to each role and power source combination.

I have a sneaking suspicion that you will be able to select talents form other classes/rolls/power sources perhaps through feats (I'm thinking something similar to the martial study feat from the ToB or Force sensitive from saga or the *forget the names* from the ToM. Otherwise, yeah, I'm pretty sure that most talents, assuming they're in (I hope so but haven't heard the official word myself) will be class/roll/power source specific.

Professions
Classes will be renamed to professions and will be similar to kits in 2E and will be like window dressing and flavor over the Class/Power Source Combo. They will come with class skills that are available and some starting feats, Feats and Talents that are available only to this profession.

The Fighter will be a profession will be available to Martial Defenders and will have some specialization feats/Talents.

I don't believe classes will be renamed to professions. There are numerous references by the designers to classes (though that could be like the bible's reference to a flat world- we're not ready to learn that yet!) We can already re-flavor our classes to our liking. One of my favorite characters was an elven "shaman" that was mechanically a barbarian. Another was a human sorcerer that was “touched by the gods”. I do suspect, however, that some classes will be converted to talent and/or feat trees.

Multiclassing
Multiclassing will work best with classes of the same power source.

I think the official word is that all multiclass combinations will be equally viable. One of the things they want to get away from is the fighter/wizard mess.

The Ranger which is rumored to be the Divine Striker which could be combined with Cleric which is rumored to be the Divine Leader. A Ranger 4/Cleric3 will have a caster level of 7 and cast spells most likely as a 4rth level cleric.

I wouldn't put too much stock in rumors. Each power source may not have a place in each roll. That said, I could see them doing something similar to (the stacking caster level) considering the ToB listed as 4e inspired.

If you mix Power source they will combine at a reduced rate - say 1/4 as an example so that you investment is not a total loss.

I don't really think so. Again, going by the ToB, you gain 1/2 initiator level for non adept classes. I think/hope multiclass in 4e will be similar.

These are just some crazy thoughts. What do you think?

I think I want more official info! I'm dying here man!

 

[Pygon]

I'm guessing we'll be able to pick talents, feats etc. to make many 3e classes that we have now. Rangers would have ranged and favored enemy talents, barbarians would have rage talents, etc.

But I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

I'm hoping that picking a role doesn't shoehorn the build so that it only does things entirely relevent to that role. I'm also hoping that even though we might be able to build the 3e classes, or at least a fair approximation of them, that the abilities are spliced apart so that we can combine aspects of classes we have now for even more options.

 

[Gloombunny]

I really doubt that "role" will be something you pick for your character like that. I think you'll select a class like you do in 3e, and "role" will be a behind-the-scenes concept that designers use to inform their decisions about what each class should be good at doing.

Ideally (to me), the only time a player would see the four roles being discussed is in a brief passage in each class's writeup saying what role the class is meant to fill, how it's meant to fill that role, and how you could try to use it to cover other roles if you really want to.

 

[mattcolville]

I really doubt that "role" will be something you pick for your character like that. I think you'll select a class like you do in 3e, and "role" will be a behind-the-scenes concept that designers use to inform their decisions about what each class should be good at doing.

Ideally (to me), the only time a player would see the four roles being discussed is in a brief passage in each class's writeup saying what role the class is meant to fill, how it's meant to fill that role, and how you could try to use it to cover other roles if you really want to.

I think I'd be happy with making it entirely a session-to-session metagame choice by the players. So this week I can be the Controller, next week I can be the Leader.

Some races and classes do this better than others, but none of them suck at it.

 

[wedgeski]

I really doubt that "role" will be something you pick for your character like that. I think you'll select a class like you do in 3e, and "role" will be a behind-the-scenes concept that designers use to inform their decisions about what each class should be good at doing.

I'm not entirely convinced by this. If roles didn't have a mechanical impact, they wouldn't be hyped as much as they are. I think FreeXenon might be right in suggesting you pick your role first, then your class.

 

[hong]

I'm not entirely convinced by this. If roles didn't have a mechanical impact, they wouldn't be hyped as much as they are. I think FreeXenon might be right in suggesting you pick your role first, then your class.

Have they really been hyped that much? From what I can see, it looks to be more just everyone on the forums getting carried away with speculation.

 

[wedgeski]

Have they really been hyped that much? From what I can see, it looks to be more just everyone on the forums getting carried away with speculation.

Well, roles were at the heart of the 4th Edition announcement presentation. To me they're the signature feature of 4ed as we know it at the moment (which, admittedly, is badly).

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Yeah, I'm fairly certain that Roles are just a design conceit.

For the Player's Perspective:

You pick Race

Class

Talents

Feats

From the Party's Perspective:

You get someone to fill

Leader

Controller

Striker

Tank

roles or you decide to do without say, a controller, and go with two leaders or whatever.

Your class choice will determine which role you fill and your talent choice will determine how, precisely, you are differentiated from other people who fill that role and how that role will function within the party.

Why are we seeing roles hyped more than classes when classes clearly matter more?

Because we know that all four roles will be represented, but noone is certain which classes are going to make the grade. Consider the roles just a preview for class organization more than a concrete feature.

 

[FreeXenon]

Now that have a little more sleep and have read a few comments I am thinking much clearer. Thanks...

Yea, I do think that it will still be classes. The method that I think the designers will be using to design classes will parallel what I described above. Each class, I think, will have their Role and Power Source stated in the class description. Their advancement will be tied specifically to their Role: Defenders will most likely have a Strong BAB and Controllers not so much and the like.

I think that the designers will take the Role and the Power Source, which in and of themselves will be balanced within each other providing a stable base, kind of how I described above, from which to develop a class. Then they will add the class abilities and Talents that are specific to that class. Each layer - Role, Power Source, Talent, Feat, and class abilities - will, theoretically, be balanced within themselves. Having each layer basically balance as they go will provide a stable development base for their design and for others to design their own classes as well as make it convenient to design a class.

Just my thoughts.