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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 3779644" data-attributes="member: 18">Actually, they have, with F4nboy's post above (&quot;rp-free&quot; etc. - currently the PHB has about one page on it). The point remains, and is being ignored - if no-one teaches genuinely new players, they won't know how to - thus they will inevitably go through a certain period of playing the game without any significant RP, particularly if they are ex-MMORPG players. This is fine for WotC, but not so fine for any of us who have to play with them, and thus &quot;break them in&quot;.It's easy for us experienced RPers to sit around and say &quot;Hahaha it's obvious!&quot;, but the fact is, many of us learnt to RP over time, and many of us learnt from games which weren't D&amp;D, and which offered a clearer perspective on what RP was, and why you think about the character, not just &quot;How to win&quot; (which, down the road, often leads to the worst kinds of munchkinism).I don't think we need any &quot;role-playing rules&quot;, per se, so don't be confused. That's nice in some games, and you could work it into alignment, but like you, I'd rather not.What we should have is a very basic intro to the idea of RP in the PHB - An example game section would be fine for this, so long as the players are clearly role-playing, and the concept of role-playing, if not actually explored, should at least be mentioned. This is an RPG, for now, not a tactical boardgame. We should also have a section like in the current PHB, or Shadowrun, that causes people to think about their characters a bit more - Shadowrun's &quot;20 Questions&quot; was a masterpiece, and a similar, adapted version of it could be used for 4E (as it's D&amp;D, you'd phrase it as an optional thing to do with your character, not a necessary part of character creation).In the DMG role-playing should be properly explained, in depth, &quot;good&quot; and &quot;bad&quot; role-playing explained, particularly with emphasis on dealing with disruptive players (which can be tricky, especially for kids), and a suggestion of entirely optional XP awards for good RP put in (note the entirely optional part - you just have it there to make the DM feel like it's okay to do so - remebering that young and inexperienced DMs tend to lack the initiative to do that sort of thing by themselves).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 3779644, member: 18"] Actually, they have, with F4nboy's post above ("rp-free" etc. - currently the PHB has about one page on it). The point remains, and is being ignored - if no-one teaches [I]genuinely new[/I] players, they won't know how to - thus they will inevitably go through a certain period of playing the game without any significant RP, particularly if they are ex-MMORPG players. This is fine for WotC, but not so fine for any of us who have to play with them, and thus "break them in". It's easy for us experienced RPers to sit around and say "Hahaha it's obvious!", but the fact is, many of us learnt to RP over time, and many of us learnt from games which weren't D&D, and which offered a clearer perspective on what RP was, and why you think about the character, not just "How to win" (which, down the road, often leads to the worst kinds of munchkinism). I don't think we need any "role-playing rules", per se, so don't be confused. That's nice in some games, and you could work it into alignment, but like you, I'd rather not. What we should have is a very basic intro to the idea of RP in the PHB - An example game section would be fine for this, so long as the players are clearly role-playing, and the concept of role-playing, if not actually explored, should at least be mentioned. This is an RPG, for now, not a tactical boardgame. We should also have a section like in the current PHB, or Shadowrun, that causes people to think about their characters a bit more - Shadowrun's "20 Questions" was a masterpiece, and a similar, adapted version of it could be used for 4E (as it's D&D, you'd phrase it as an optional thing to do with your character, not a necessary part of character creation). In the DMG role-playing should be properly explained, in depth, "good" and "bad" role-playing explained, particularly with emphasis on dealing with disruptive players (which can be tricky, especially for kids), and a suggestion of entirely optional XP awards for good RP put in (note the entirely optional part - you just have it there to make the DM feel like it's okay to do so - remebering that young and inexperienced DMs tend to lack the initiative to do that sort of thing by themselves). [/QUOTE]

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