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<blockquote data-quote="catsclaw" data-source="post: 4127204" data-attributes="member: 59911">In a certain sense, all penalties are out-of-game penalties.&nbsp; You try to win at Monopoly not because there's some real sanction that will hit you if you lose, but because you'll feel bad, in the real world, for losing.&nbsp; If I design a game and the rules say &quot;After an hour has passed, whoever has reached the right-most edge of the board has achieved outcome K, and everyone who avoided reaching the right-most edge has achieved outcome J.&quot; you're not going to have any incentive to achieve either outcome.&nbsp; If I call it &quot;win&quot; and &quot;lose&quot;, you suddenly do.&nbsp; That's not because anything changed in the game.My point, which you seem to have missed, is that a TPK is a ridiculously severe penalty, since it virtually necessitates throwing away all the characters and likely the campaign--which is an out-of-game penalty if anything is.&nbsp; If that level of risk was necessary to keep my interest, I'd definitely bring it up with a psychologist.Let me make it simpler for you.In Dungeons and Dragons, you could lose by getting knocked out and having your sword stolen.&nbsp; Or you can lose by having your head bitten off, your body dissolved in a dragon's acid breath, the remnants scattered to the four winds, and the GM saying &quot;You're dead and you can't be raised, so don't bother coming back until we're finished with this campaign&quot;.In Monopoly, you can lose by going bankrupt and saying &quot;Darn!&quot;&nbsp; Or you can lose by going bankrupt in the game, and then fulfilling your end of a bet by selling your house for $1.See?&nbsp; You can have a range of penalties.&nbsp; It doesn't have to be the most severe penalty you can think of to make you try and avoid it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="catsclaw, post: 4127204, member: 59911"] In a certain sense, [i]all[/i] penalties are out-of-game penalties. You try to win at Monopoly not because there's some real sanction that will hit you if you lose, but because you'll feel bad, [i]in the real world[/i], for losing. If I design a game and the rules say "After an hour has passed, whoever has reached the right-most edge of the board has achieved outcome K, and everyone who avoided reaching the right-most edge has achieved outcome J." you're not going to have any incentive to achieve either outcome. If I call it "win" and "lose", you suddenly do. That's not because anything changed in the game. My point, which you seem to have missed, is that a TPK is a ridiculously severe penalty, since it virtually necessitates throwing away all the characters and likely the campaign--which is an out-of-game penalty if anything is. If that level of risk was necessary to keep my interest, I'd definitely bring it up with a psychologist. Let me make it simpler for you. In Dungeons and Dragons, you could lose by getting knocked out and having your sword stolen. Or you can lose by having your head bitten off, your body dissolved in a dragon's acid breath, the remnants scattered to the four winds, and the GM saying "You're dead and you can't be raised, so don't bother coming back until we're finished with this campaign". In Monopoly, you can lose by going bankrupt and saying "Darn!" Or you can lose by going bankrupt in the game, and then fulfilling your end of a bet by selling your house for $1. See? You can have a range of penalties. It doesn't [i]have[/i] to be the most severe penalty you can think of to make you try and avoid it. [/QUOTE]

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