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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 4789989" data-attributes="member: 54877">That's true, but I'd say that the limitation is more a function of other parts of the system, not that D&amp;D is class-based.&nbsp; For example, in Hero, not only do you have Stun and Body to damage, you can also drain, transfer, etc.&nbsp; The equivalents in D&amp;D are essentially--damage.&nbsp; Classes are a way of managing complexiity, but there isn't that much complexiity to manage in the &quot;defeat opponent&quot; mechanics of D&amp;D.&nbsp; Don't get me wrong--I like how simple 4E is and don't feel that classes are too similar.&nbsp; But the feeling of &quot;sameness&quot; that people are getting is a direct consequence of the simplicity.&nbsp; If you want less &quot;sameness&quot;, you must complicate to get it.&nbsp;Note that prior to 4E, a lot (if not all) of those separate mechanics for doing things were end-runs around hit points.&nbsp; This is why Save and Die was simultaneously so powerful, interesting, and problematic.&nbsp; So all I was really saying is that if you must complicate, do it with consistent mechanics, not end-runs..</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 4789989, member: 54877"] That's true, but I'd say that the limitation is more a function of other parts of the system, not that D&D is class-based. For example, in Hero, not only do you have Stun and Body to damage, you can also drain, transfer, etc. The equivalents in D&D are essentially--damage. Classes are a way of managing complexiity, but there isn't that much complexiity to manage in the "defeat opponent" mechanics of D&D. Don't get me wrong--I like how simple 4E is and don't feel that classes are too similar. But the feeling of "sameness" that people are getting is a direct consequence of the simplicity. If you want less "sameness", you must complicate to get it. Note that prior to 4E, a lot (if not all) of those separate mechanics for doing things were end-runs around hit points. This is why Save and Die was simultaneously so powerful, interesting, and problematic. So all I was really saying is that if you must complicate, do it with consistent mechanics, not end-runs.. [/QUOTE]

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