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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AllisterH" data-source="post: 4110087" data-attributes="member: 51325">I think this is the problem. You want the martial classes to "make sense" or at the least, seem to want to restrict them to a) things they were capable of at 1st level and or b) just better than stuff they were doing at 1st level.Magic operates on an entirely different system where at higher levels, not only do you get better with stuff that you had at 1st level and can also cast more lower level spells representing the same "gain" that the martial classes have but also most importantly, they gain entirely new powers that have NOTHING in common with what they have at 1st level.Basically, you have non-magical classes that basically can be charted on a linear scale with magical classes on an exponential scale.The Vancian model that was used to balance it didn't work that well IMO since it seemed D&D (all versions, not just 3.5E) assumed that at a specific point in time, you would have full access to a caster (around 5-6th level) and if you didn't encounters became much harder than normal.If D&D topped at 6th level (E6 highlights this perfectly), then yeah, Vancian casting is perfectly acceptable.The other way is to limit D&D magic. Seriously, when I compare not just the power but the entirely different capabiliteis that D&D magic gives compared to "balanced" systems like HERO and GURPS, I shake my head in disbelief. The actual power of spells in the hands of a mid to high level D&D wizard just have no match in other RPGs that expect "mundanes" to be full partners.It's not just Meteor Swarm (that's just damage), its the weird stuff like Forcecage, Teleport, Polymorph, Illusion magic, Flight etc. However restricting this too much has its own problems, namely the fact that aska geek what's D&D about and its not about a guy grimly swiping down enemies with his sword, its the guy with the spells.There's also the weird dichtomy that non-spellcasters are expected to deal with the decidely non-mundane with mundane methods. In a realistic world, there's just no way that a human fighter is fighting evenly versus a Hill Giant in melee. That just isn't possible and that's one of the most mundane creatures above level 6 you can encounter.  Again, another reason why E6 works is that the creatures used are basically humanoids with swords.I personally hated the fact that increasingly as you level, it became more about your gear. Take away a mage's magical gear and the only difference is his stamina. His powers still work for the most part against the same enemies. Take away a mundane class' magical gear and you're looking at some pretty weak sauce.</blockquote>

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