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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4e: the new paradigm
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<blockquote data-quote="AllisterH" data-source="post: 4110587" data-attributes="member: 51325"><p>I suspect that this is a classic fight between "what's good for the game" and "realism". I remember a while back (must've been around the release of B09S) that someone also hated the manoeuvers being akin to ammo and Mearls pointed out that initially, he had the encounter system setup so that each manoeuver could be done all the time but you would just take a cumulative -1 penalty for each manoeuver you did to the same opponent.</p><p></p><p>He noticed that unless the penalty was high enough, players would simply repeat the best power (which itself is somewhat unrealistic. Even a dumb game AI nowadays doesn't fall for the same trick repeated endlessly) and that it also increased the amount of bookwork on the parts of the players and balancing on the parts of the designer you had to do.</p><p></p><p>This is one of the advantages of the slot system over the mana system as ironically, the mana system is MUCH easier for a computer to handle than a player (subtraction is considered actually harder for people to understand than even division by math teachers/mathematicians. Amazing and I personally didn't believe it at first but something that math school teachers swear by)</p><p></p><p>Simplicity trumps realism I suspect is the same reason why this time around, you can't even refresh your encounter manoeuvers a la Bo9S.</p><p></p><p>The same thing might also explain the lack of "long-term injury" that the 4E game has. From this thread and the actual thread which institued/asked "long-term injury in 4E", a large majority of the answers/solutions adversely affect the non-spellcasters and also get circumvented easily by magic (in 1e/2e, you healed 2 hp/day thus technically, a high level fighter might be out for several weeks. In practise though? Healbot blows all their spells on 1 day of rest and fighter is back to good by the early morning).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's good. It always made me shake my head that people complained that fighters were unrealistic since they were jumping around yet didn't even blink that spellcasters shapechanged into a dragon.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AllisterH, post: 4110587, member: 51325"] I suspect that this is a classic fight between "what's good for the game" and "realism". I remember a while back (must've been around the release of B09S) that someone also hated the manoeuvers being akin to ammo and Mearls pointed out that initially, he had the encounter system setup so that each manoeuver could be done all the time but you would just take a cumulative -1 penalty for each manoeuver you did to the same opponent. He noticed that unless the penalty was high enough, players would simply repeat the best power (which itself is somewhat unrealistic. Even a dumb game AI nowadays doesn't fall for the same trick repeated endlessly) and that it also increased the amount of bookwork on the parts of the players and balancing on the parts of the designer you had to do. This is one of the advantages of the slot system over the mana system as ironically, the mana system is MUCH easier for a computer to handle than a player (subtraction is considered actually harder for people to understand than even division by math teachers/mathematicians. Amazing and I personally didn't believe it at first but something that math school teachers swear by) Simplicity trumps realism I suspect is the same reason why this time around, you can't even refresh your encounter manoeuvers a la Bo9S. The same thing might also explain the lack of "long-term injury" that the 4E game has. From this thread and the actual thread which institued/asked "long-term injury in 4E", a large majority of the answers/solutions adversely affect the non-spellcasters and also get circumvented easily by magic (in 1e/2e, you healed 2 hp/day thus technically, a high level fighter might be out for several weeks. In practise though? Healbot blows all their spells on 1 day of rest and fighter is back to good by the early morning). That's good. It always made me shake my head that people complained that fighters were unrealistic since they were jumping around yet didn't even blink that spellcasters shapechanged into a dragon. [/QUOTE]
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