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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The_Gneech" data-source="post: 4112314" data-attributes="member: 6779">This is the first 4E discussion I've seen that actually gave me some food for thought -- so thanks to the OP and all commenters! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Anyway, my thoughts on the matter...I think, for me, that this is exactly where the hurt is coming from. 3.0 was the first version of D&D that I actually liked as a game system, because it was the first time I felt like the rules were designed to support the "reality" of the game, instead of the other way around.Granted, 3E's "reality" had a lot of strange artifacts because it was carrying the baggage of previous editions' contortions to make a setting that made sense within the context of their rules -- but the core desire at least was there. The reports I've read of 4E sound like bizarre mechanical constructs being smoothed out by a bit of rhetorical handwavium. Some of that is necessary in any RPG context, I know -- but in my opinion it should be MINIMIZED whenever possible, not be made the foundation of the game's philosophy!Remember in 3E discussions when people were goofing on the Phantom Fungus, a monster which was clearly created to fill a CR gap for "a low level monster with invisibility" but had precious little reason to exist otherwise? What I've seen of 4E, the whole game is being built that way. Not, "Okay, we've got a warrior, what would his abilities be?" but "Okay, we need somebody who can absorb damage -- we'll give him DR a certain number of times per encounter and call him the 'warrior'."It is, to my way of thinking, exactly backwards from how RPG's should be structured.-The Gneech <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /></blockquote>

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