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<blockquote data-quote="Storm-Bringer" data-source="post: 4114467" data-attributes="member: 57832">This is like saying &quot;that you can't start your car whenever you like.&nbsp; You can start your car, but you can't expect the benefit of turning the key in the ignition whenever you'd like'.I mean, what is the 'trip power'?&nbsp; The ability to knock someone off their feet, right?&nbsp; In the chaos of melee, the first person you trip instantly transmits the information to every other opponent so you are unable to knock their feet out from under them again?Something like the Bodak's ability to drop an opponent to 0hp is a gross disparity of power.&nbsp; We are talking about 'trip' here.&nbsp; I defy anyone to show how that is a gross disparity of power.But is that a problem with the rules, or the particular group of players?&nbsp; Is there really something inherent to the rules for Climb that will render everyone else at the table ineffective in every situation?&nbsp; Is Power Attack so overwhelmingly potent that everyone else can leave their weapons at home?That is the job of the DM.It sounds glib, but that really is the bottom line.&nbsp; While that requires a certain portion of fiat, 4e hasn't lessened that, only changed its focus.&nbsp; So instead of allowing or disallowing certain actions (there simply are times when a History check is inappropriate, no matter how cleverly worded), the DM is now having to alter the world on the fly, and explain why the players can't use some ability more than once per day.&nbsp; A trade off, to be sure, but more like a straight across trade than a trade-up.And I'm sorry for being jerky earlier.</blockquote>[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="Storm-Bringer, post: 4114467, member: 57832"] This is like saying "that you can't start your car whenever you like. You can start your car, but you can't expect the benefit of turning the key in the ignition whenever you'd like'. I mean, what is the 'trip power'? The ability to knock someone off their feet, right? In the chaos of melee, the first person you trip instantly transmits the information to every other opponent so you are unable to knock their feet out from under them again? Something like the Bodak's ability to drop an opponent to 0hp is a gross disparity of power. We are talking about 'trip' here. I defy anyone to show how that is a gross disparity of power. But is that a problem with the rules, or the particular group of players? Is there really something inherent to the rules for Climb that will render everyone else at the table ineffective in every situation? Is Power Attack so overwhelmingly potent that everyone else can leave their weapons at home? That is the job of the DM. It sounds glib, but that really is the bottom line. While that requires a certain portion of fiat, 4e hasn't lessened that, only changed its focus. So instead of allowing or disallowing certain actions (there simply are times when a History check is inappropriate, no matter how cleverly worded), the DM is now having to alter the world on the fly, and explain why the players can't use some ability more than once per day. A trade off, to be sure, but more like a straight across trade than a trade-up. And I'm sorry for being jerky earlier.[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]

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