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<blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 5433798" data-attributes="member: 151">ICv2's data is interesting, but it sounds like it's entirely based on polling retailers...primarily comic-book and hobby shops. AFAIK, they don't poll distributors directly, nor do they get data from large chains (such as B&amp;N and Borders), regular bookstores, toy stores like TrU or from the publishers themselves, not to mention online sellers.&nbsp; Amazon's lists are no better at illuminating these points (and I would argue are far worse).It's an interesting data point to use for discussion, but we don't have any actual hard numbers that are reliable.&nbsp; I think a lot of people are taking this as literal fact, rather than an indicator.&nbsp; I don't think we have enough data to say anything other than &quot;for the stores that ICv2 interviewed, they noticed the following surprising trend&quot;.I have no idea how well one game sells versus another.&nbsp; It's possible Pathfinder is outselling or equaling D&amp;D.&nbsp; I find it less likely once you broaden the scope, given that I've never seen Pathfinder for sale outside of a game shop, but I can find D&amp;D at several local book sellers.&nbsp; I don't know how significant a sales difference that is...but unless WotC and Paizo share their numbers, we can only speculate.Yeah, I found that assertion pretty LOLtastic.&nbsp; Back when Eric was running the site in 2000, the idea that 3E was universally accepted and non-controversial would have been met with incredulity.&nbsp; And the only way you could claim that 2E was well-received by the D&amp;D community is if you discount all the players that dropped D&amp;D when it came out, I guess. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Honestly, it seems like twice a year, the new 'WotC is DOOMED' cycle begins, as Umbran says.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="WizarDru, post: 5433798, member: 151"] ICv2's data is interesting, but it sounds like it's entirely based on polling retailers...primarily comic-book and hobby shops. AFAIK, they don't poll distributors directly, nor do they get data from large chains (such as B&N and Borders), regular bookstores, toy stores like TrU or from the publishers themselves, not to mention online sellers. Amazon's lists are no better at illuminating these points (and I would argue are far worse). It's an interesting data point to use for discussion, but we don't have any actual hard numbers that are reliable. I think a lot of people are taking this as literal fact, rather than an indicator. I don't think we have enough data to say anything other than "for the stores that ICv2 interviewed, they noticed the following surprising trend". I have no idea how well one game sells versus another. It's possible Pathfinder is outselling or equaling D&D. I find it less likely once you broaden the scope, given that I've never seen Pathfinder for sale outside of a game shop, but I can find D&D at several local book sellers. I don't know how significant a sales difference that is...but unless WotC and Paizo share their numbers, we can only speculate. Yeah, I found that assertion pretty LOLtastic. Back when Eric was running the site in 2000, the idea that 3E was universally accepted and non-controversial would have been met with incredulity. And the only way you could claim that 2E was well-received by the D&D community is if you discount all the players that dropped D&D when it came out, I guess. :) Honestly, it seems like twice a year, the new 'WotC is DOOMED' cycle begins, as Umbran says. [/QUOTE]

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