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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Graf" data-source="post: 4434614" data-attributes="member: 3087">I have yet to see any "friend fire" events.... there is less bunching in 4e and everyone (including party members) can move. If somebody is flanked by your party members and they're the only viable target?We're winning the fight, and the wizard, as controller, isn't going to be doing more than contributing marginal damage anyway.[d]--[/d]Speaking as someone who's currently in danger of TPKing his entire party with a battle that includes a lot of minions and who is ALSO playing a wizard....You will get swarmed and there will be minions (WotC loves minions... they are a new "feature" of the system.... and they're really awesome). 4e is not 3.5. Everything moves. So you need to have a strategy. At the same time I see EveKB's point in taking fire shroud over an at will area.Since you'll get swarmed a lot fire shroud will come up useful, it's enemies only and it's got a killer area.And with that and an encounter teleport you have flexibility.So you can probably drop thunderwave if you like and try to cover it with fire shroud.... having said that...Controller=AoE ideally with "effects". Fire shroud just is ongoing five... who's it good against? Minions are already dead... the damage on a hit is ~4.5+5+8.5 (19) (assuming save 10+) which isn't a lot in 4e terms, with a 50% hit rate your talking about ~10 points of damage.WotC really uses minions a lot for "weaker" foes; serious creatures have will have 50+ hit points. Obviously pulling 10 off of lots of guys (or 20 off of half of them) isn't nothing, but...I think that powers like Icy Rays (immobilize) or Color Spray (daze) are slightly tougher to use but offer you a lot more control. Anyone can do damage, taking control of the battlefield is something only a controller can do. I would consider playing to your unique strengths. Single target spells will only hit <s>around 20% of the time</s> around 50%~60% of the time so 40-50% of the time your action is effectively "do nothing".A multitarget spell gets separate rolls for each target. Your odds of getting "no effect" with multiple targets is much smaller (the chance of missing all 3 targets with a 60% hit rate? ~6.4%)If you're using single target spells and you hit a bad streak you could go two or three rounds without having any impact on a combat; I'd consider having a proper area at will, if you can manage it.</blockquote>

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