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<blockquote data-quote="MerricB" data-source="post: 3709721" data-attributes="member: 3586">Take it from me: a lot of time is spent in battles.&quot;Picks the locks&quot;... ooh. I get to roll the die once (or take 20). Takes 20 seconds. Not quality fun.&quot;Scouts the dungeons&quot;... ooh, I get to get 15 minutes of 1 on 1 time with the DM. Not fun for the other players.&quot;Lots of non-combat stuff&quot;... you need to come up with interesting examples.Battles are great because everyone gets involved. They are the highlight of many - if not most - games. IME, it comes up in nearly every battle. It's not so important at levels 1-3, but by level 10? You see it all the time. Improved Invisible Flying Rogue. That's a sneak attack every attack.Yeah, and the rogue isn't tremendously disadvantaged in that situation anyway.You haven't seen quite enough 3.5e play then. Flanking can be one way of doing it (especially in 1 on 1 fights), but Improved Feint, Invisibility, Hide (and sniping) and a bunch of other things allow sneak attack to function in fights.As 3.5e has gone on, that Golem has gotten less and less effective at resisting magic, alas! Even if the Wizard doesn't have Melf's Acid Arrow, there are still spells like Haste that cause the Golem to have a bad time. (And once you add SC and the Orb spells... eek!)Sure, there are times when the Wizard isn't quite as effective, ditto the Fighter, Cleric and Rogue. However, a design goal of 4e seems to be that there will *still* be something they can do, rather than hanging back and doing nothing for 60+ minutes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MerricB, post: 3709721, member: 3586"] Take it from me: a lot of time is spent in battles. "Picks the locks"... ooh. I get to roll the die once (or take 20). Takes 20 seconds. Not quality fun. "Scouts the dungeons"... ooh, I get to get 15 minutes of 1 on 1 time with the DM. Not fun for the other players. "Lots of non-combat stuff"... you need to come up with interesting examples. Battles are great because everyone gets involved. They are the highlight of many - if not most - games. IME, it comes up in nearly every battle. It's not so important at levels 1-3, but by level 10? You see it all the time. Improved Invisible Flying Rogue. That's a sneak attack every attack. Yeah, and the rogue isn't tremendously disadvantaged in that situation anyway. You haven't seen quite enough 3.5e play then. Flanking can be one way of doing it (especially in 1 on 1 fights), but Improved Feint, Invisibility, Hide (and sniping) and a bunch of other things allow sneak attack to function in fights. As 3.5e has gone on, that Golem has gotten less and less effective at resisting magic, alas! Even if the Wizard doesn't have Melf's Acid Arrow, there are still spells like Haste that cause the Golem to have a bad time. (And once you add SC and the Orb spells... eek!) Sure, there are times when the Wizard isn't quite as effective, ditto the Fighter, Cleric and Rogue. However, a design goal of 4e seems to be that there will *still* be something they can do, rather than hanging back and doing nothing for 60+ minutes. [/QUOTE]

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