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4e Tiefling Battlemind
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<blockquote data-quote="tiornys" data-source="post: 6668362" data-attributes="member: 17633"><p>I'm not convinced you're getting all that much extra damage out of the combo. Unless I'm missing something, you need three hits within a turn cycle (from the start of your turn to the end of your next turn) in order for Headsman's Chop to do anything for you (barring extra help from your party), and the 2nd and 3rd hits can't allow an enemy turn in-between (or they just stand up). In other words, you're not really getting control <em>and</em> damage on every hit--you're getting control <em>or</em> damage, and the damage doesn't happen until you've invested enough control. And to get there, you're giving up a shield, forcing yourself to take two Expertise feats or Versatile Expertise (giving up the riders from Flail Expertise and Heavy Blade Expertise), and forcing yourself to maintain enchantments on two weapons.</p><p></p><p>At that point, I think you'd be better off with Mark of Storm + Rushing Cleats + Polearm Momentum + Headsman's Chop with a Lightning Gouge. Now you're able to prone on any hit, you gain a lot of positioning control from slide 2 on any hit, and your base weapon damage is 2d6 (brutal 1) instead of 1d8 (brutal 1). It's about the same investment, but it's actually giving you both control and damage on every hit instead of only giving you one or the other.</p><p></p><p>"Side-by-side" analysis I wrote out to help form the opinions stated above:</p><p>Turathi Weapon Training + Net Training + Versatile Expertise + World Serpent's Grasp + Headsman's Chop + Heavy Blade Opportunist</p><p>Mark of Storms + Gouge Proficiency + Spear Expertise + Polearm Momentum + Headsman's Chop + Melee Training</p><p></p><p>Both need the same number of feats to get going. Net/Khopesh combo has the advantage of using at-wills on OAs, but lacks a useful MBA to use with stuff like charging, leader-granted attacks, Strikebacks, etc. It's also either expensive to maintain or giving up accuracy and damage from enhancement bonuses due to the need to maintain two magical weapons. Gouge combo has higher base damage, easier access to the Headsman's Chop payoff, and is easier to expand on with further feats (since everything I take applies to my single weapon), but is more reliant on specific magic items (Rushing Cleats and Lightning weapon). Can free up the weapon enhancement by being Stormsoul Genasi and investing another feat for Shocking Flame, which is definitely the way to go if looking at Frost or Radiant abuse on top of the prone exploitation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tiornys, post: 6668362, member: 17633"] I'm not convinced you're getting all that much extra damage out of the combo. Unless I'm missing something, you need three hits within a turn cycle (from the start of your turn to the end of your next turn) in order for Headsman's Chop to do anything for you (barring extra help from your party), and the 2nd and 3rd hits can't allow an enemy turn in-between (or they just stand up). In other words, you're not really getting control [I]and[/I] damage on every hit--you're getting control [I]or[/I] damage, and the damage doesn't happen until you've invested enough control. And to get there, you're giving up a shield, forcing yourself to take two Expertise feats or Versatile Expertise (giving up the riders from Flail Expertise and Heavy Blade Expertise), and forcing yourself to maintain enchantments on two weapons. At that point, I think you'd be better off with Mark of Storm + Rushing Cleats + Polearm Momentum + Headsman's Chop with a Lightning Gouge. Now you're able to prone on any hit, you gain a lot of positioning control from slide 2 on any hit, and your base weapon damage is 2d6 (brutal 1) instead of 1d8 (brutal 1). It's about the same investment, but it's actually giving you both control and damage on every hit instead of only giving you one or the other. "Side-by-side" analysis I wrote out to help form the opinions stated above: Turathi Weapon Training + Net Training + Versatile Expertise + World Serpent's Grasp + Headsman's Chop + Heavy Blade Opportunist Mark of Storms + Gouge Proficiency + Spear Expertise + Polearm Momentum + Headsman's Chop + Melee Training Both need the same number of feats to get going. Net/Khopesh combo has the advantage of using at-wills on OAs, but lacks a useful MBA to use with stuff like charging, leader-granted attacks, Strikebacks, etc. It's also either expensive to maintain or giving up accuracy and damage from enhancement bonuses due to the need to maintain two magical weapons. Gouge combo has higher base damage, easier access to the Headsman's Chop payoff, and is easier to expand on with further feats (since everything I take applies to my single weapon), but is more reliant on specific magic items (Rushing Cleats and Lightning weapon). Can free up the weapon enhancement by being Stormsoul Genasi and investing another feat for Shocking Flame, which is definitely the way to go if looking at Frost or Radiant abuse on top of the prone exploitation. [/QUOTE]
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