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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4e - Too much change?
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<blockquote data-quote="Brian Compton" data-source="post: 3918666" data-attributes="member: 24898"><p>Every edition changes core races and classes. 2E didn't have assassins, barbarians, or monks at the beginning, but it had bards as a base class. 3E put barbarians and monks back in and added sorcerers. 2E didn't have half-orcs, and non-human races could only advance so far in different classes (none but humans could make it to level 20 in almost anything). 3E changed that, for the better IMO. </p><p></p><p>Also, it doesn't sound like schools are completely gone. If anything, they're going back to 2E and almost making (eventually) specialist mages their own classes. They've said, down the line, that they'd like to make an Illusionist and, potentially, a Necromancer. A wizard can still cast some illusions, like Invisibility; an Illusionist can just do it better in some way. Some transmutations are still around; divinations are going to be done via rituals, which may be spells or may not be. We won't know for a while. But the core divisions of magic still remain. Likewise, Vancian magic may still apply to "per day" effects (sounds like it will) without being the core of the Wizard class. That for me is fine, as it was one of the things keeping me from playing wizards in the past. And giving them at will and per encounter powers is great; I've been in games where the wizard or cleric blows his wad early on buffs and the party has at most one or two encounters before stopping for the "day" because the caster has nothing left to offer.</p><p></p><p>As for 4th Edition killing Greyhawk, no. No more than 3E killed Mystara, Birthright, Planescape, et al. People found ways to keep them alive while still playing 3E and 3.5E. Besides, we don't know what WotC's going to do with Greyhawk; they haven't talked about any worlds except FR and Eberron. So don't say goodbye to Mordenkainen just yet.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>While I think that's a little drastic, the designers do seem to rag on 3E frequently. You never hear a car company say "Our previous year model was complete crap, but this year's model rulez!" It would really make you question the competency of the designers. Though it seems like many of the current designers were not around when 3E was first created, so it -sort of- can be understood, but that bespeaks to a serious issue with PR and corporate loyalty.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Brian Compton, post: 3918666, member: 24898"] Every edition changes core races and classes. 2E didn't have assassins, barbarians, or monks at the beginning, but it had bards as a base class. 3E put barbarians and monks back in and added sorcerers. 2E didn't have half-orcs, and non-human races could only advance so far in different classes (none but humans could make it to level 20 in almost anything). 3E changed that, for the better IMO. Also, it doesn't sound like schools are completely gone. If anything, they're going back to 2E and almost making (eventually) specialist mages their own classes. They've said, down the line, that they'd like to make an Illusionist and, potentially, a Necromancer. A wizard can still cast some illusions, like Invisibility; an Illusionist can just do it better in some way. Some transmutations are still around; divinations are going to be done via rituals, which may be spells or may not be. We won't know for a while. But the core divisions of magic still remain. Likewise, Vancian magic may still apply to "per day" effects (sounds like it will) without being the core of the Wizard class. That for me is fine, as it was one of the things keeping me from playing wizards in the past. And giving them at will and per encounter powers is great; I've been in games where the wizard or cleric blows his wad early on buffs and the party has at most one or two encounters before stopping for the "day" because the caster has nothing left to offer. As for 4th Edition killing Greyhawk, no. No more than 3E killed Mystara, Birthright, Planescape, et al. People found ways to keep them alive while still playing 3E and 3.5E. Besides, we don't know what WotC's going to do with Greyhawk; they haven't talked about any worlds except FR and Eberron. So don't say goodbye to Mordenkainen just yet. While I think that's a little drastic, the designers do seem to rag on 3E frequently. You never hear a car company say "Our previous year model was complete crap, but this year's model rulez!" It would really make you question the competency of the designers. Though it seems like many of the current designers were not around when 3E was first created, so it -sort of- can be understood, but that bespeaks to a serious issue with PR and corporate loyalty. [/QUOTE]
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