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<blockquote data-quote="mxyzplk" data-source="post: 3918757" data-attributes="member: 16450">And that's the part of this that I don't mind so much.See, I play 3.5e.&nbsp; I like both the Book of Nine Swords and Star Wars: Saga Edition.&nbsp; If they just took the simplified skills from SW:SE and gave Warblade type abilities to the Fighter - fine, cool.But many of the changes don't have anything to do with that.&nbsp; And they're not &quot;fluff&quot; either.Yes, people have been clamoring for faster action, grappling not being complicated, etc.&nbsp; But...- Removing classic races in favor of new ones that I haven't seen anyone clamoring for.- Removing the school based theory of magic, which I haven't seen anyone clamoring for.- Removing the Great Wheel, which I haven't seen anyone clamoring for.&nbsp; - Removing several major schools from wizards, which I haven't seen anyone clamoring for.In my opinion, there is a need for a certain kind of continuity between D&amp;D versions.&nbsp; The entire D&amp;D &quot;thing&quot; - versions, books, movies, comics, etc - creates a mindscape based on what has come before.&nbsp; Sure, switch from tables to THACO to BAB - that part is great tuning to make things better, faster, stronger.&nbsp;&nbsp; But with this new edition (from what we've heard, and sure it's incomplete blah blah) you can't reconcile Dragonlance with it.&nbsp; Or Greyhawk, or Forgotten Realms, or Planescape.&nbsp; So when you attract some new player who liked Planescape: Torment and they go look at 4e and say &quot;uh, what?&quot;&nbsp; One poster mentioned that to him, D&amp;D is races, levels, classes, etc.&nbsp; I think that's half of it, the core mechanics half.&nbsp; But the other half of the core feel is dwarves with axes, elves with bows (eladrin=bah), wizards commanding magics of various sorts,&nbsp; warriors sword-and-boarding it out with big green critters, and priests healing them and shooing the undead.&nbsp; And then you have expanding circles of &quot;core&quot;-ness in mechanics and fluff.&nbsp; In the second circle is where we're seeing a lot of impact, a very high percentage of turnover.&nbsp; &quot;Necromancers!&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Uh, no, not really anymore.&quot;&nbsp; It's OK to turn over a little second-circle stuff and lots of the third-circle stuff (things people don't have a lot of vested mindshare in - creating magic items, for example).&nbsp; So to me, they are changing too much of what classical D&amp;D consists of.&nbsp; The raw core might be there, but too many of the familiar tropes are being messed with.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mxyzplk, post: 3918757, member: 16450"] And that's the part of this that I don't mind so much. See, I play 3.5e. I like both the Book of Nine Swords and Star Wars: Saga Edition. If they just took the simplified skills from SW:SE and gave Warblade type abilities to the Fighter - fine, cool. But many of the changes don't have anything to do with that. And they're not "fluff" either. Yes, people have been clamoring for faster action, grappling not being complicated, etc. But... - Removing classic races in favor of new ones that I haven't seen anyone clamoring for. - Removing the school based theory of magic, which I haven't seen anyone clamoring for. - Removing the Great Wheel, which I haven't seen anyone clamoring for. - Removing several major schools from wizards, which I haven't seen anyone clamoring for. In my opinion, there is a need for a certain kind of continuity between D&D versions. The entire D&D "thing" - versions, books, movies, comics, etc - creates a mindscape based on what has come before. Sure, switch from tables to THACO to BAB - that part is great tuning to make things better, faster, stronger. But with this new edition (from what we've heard, and sure it's incomplete blah blah) you can't reconcile Dragonlance with it. Or Greyhawk, or Forgotten Realms, or Planescape. So when you attract some new player who liked Planescape: Torment and they go look at 4e and say "uh, what?" One poster mentioned that to him, D&D is races, levels, classes, etc. I think that's half of it, the core mechanics half. But the other half of the core feel is dwarves with axes, elves with bows (eladrin=bah), wizards commanding magics of various sorts, warriors sword-and-boarding it out with big green critters, and priests healing them and shooing the undead. And then you have expanding circles of "core"-ness in mechanics and fluff. In the second circle is where we're seeing a lot of impact, a very high percentage of turnover. "Necromancers!" "Uh, no, not really anymore." It's OK to turn over a little second-circle stuff and lots of the third-circle stuff (things people don't have a lot of vested mindshare in - creating magic items, for example). So to me, they are changing too much of what classical D&D consists of. The raw core might be there, but too many of the familiar tropes are being messed with. [/QUOTE]

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