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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6907746" data-attributes="member: 12731">Myself though, I draw the practical limit at whatever Spirit Guardians can kill off.If the monster needs to run up to you in order to claw your face off, it better have more hit points than twice the average Spirit Guardian damage, or you can throw an almost endless stream of foes at the party without anyone ever scoring a hit.I know this because I pitched five squads of a dozen Gnolls each at my level 9ish party. They did need to lay down a Wall of Fire, in addition to the Cleric's Spirit Guardians, but that was it really. Sure the cleric took a couple of hits, but only because the Gnolls are equipped with a ranged (thrown) weapon. So once the party reaches level five, 30 hp or so becomes the &quot;minion threshold&quot;. Then this slowly rises, of course. The problem is; this spell alone utterly invalidates all those CR 1/2 statblocks of the MM. (I too note how 4E minions could squirm their way past area spells like this!)We desperately need &quot;elite&quot; versions of many many more humanoids, with CRs reaching (and sometimes surpassing) CR 5. Gnolls, Dwarves, Grimlocks or what have you. The Orc War Chiefs and Drow Elite Warriors are just a start. We need more. Many more.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 6907746, member: 12731"] Myself though, I draw the practical limit at whatever Spirit Guardians can kill off. If the monster needs to run up to you in order to claw your face off, it better have more hit points than twice the average Spirit Guardian damage, or you can throw an almost endless stream of foes at the party without anyone ever scoring a hit. I know this because I pitched five squads of a dozen Gnolls each at my level 9ish party. They did need to lay down a Wall of Fire, in addition to the Cleric's Spirit Guardians, but that was it really. Sure the cleric took a couple of hits, but only because the Gnolls are equipped with a ranged (thrown) weapon. So once the party reaches level five, 30 hp or so becomes the "minion threshold". Then this slowly rises, of course. The problem is; this spell alone utterly invalidates all those CR 1/2 statblocks of the MM. (I too note how 4E minions could squirm their way past area spells like this!) We desperately need "elite" versions of many many more humanoids, with CRs reaching (and sometimes surpassing) CR 5. Gnolls, Dwarves, Grimlocks or what have you. The Orc War Chiefs and Drow Elite Warriors are just a start. We need more. Many more. [/QUOTE]

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