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<blockquote data-quote="IceFractal" data-source="post: 3753558" data-attributes="member: 27704">If by this they mean like 4-14 numerically, that's fine - I could do with some high-level battles that weren't over in the first round.However, if they mean 4-14 in terms of what a character can do - ever, then that's disappointing.&nbsp; Part of D&amp;D is something that a lot of other RPGs don't have - dramatic, scope-altering character growth.&nbsp; You start out worrying about rations and hiding from bandits, and eventually you reach metahuman power, opening portals to the nine hells so you can track down a Pit Fiend that's been annoying you and turn it into a paperweight. There's plenty of games that start in low-level, realistic terms - and then stay there.&nbsp; And I'm not saying those are bad, but they aren't D&amp;D.&nbsp; Likewise, there's games that start out already at a cosmic power scale.&nbsp; Also fine, but that cosmic power just doesn't taste as sweet when it's nothing more than the standard. .But in D&amp;D, there's nothing sweeter than coming back to the obstacles and foes that tormented you 10 levels ago, and just going right through them, not slowing down.&nbsp; Come back to that mountain range you lost all the pack mules on and BOOM, teleport right past it.&nbsp; Fly over those swamps you trudged through, and vaporize all the goblins that hounded you every night, without even breaking a sweat.&nbsp; Tell the high-priest &quot;Screw it, we're going to go talk to Pelor in person.&quot;&nbsp; And something like raiding the BBEG's castle should feel different at epic levels than it did at 3rd level.&nbsp; You don't just walk up to the &quot;Drawbridge +20&quot; and fight the Paragon orc guards and dodge the &quot;30d6 Hot Oil&quot;.&nbsp; You jump right into the middle of the place and start wreaking some havoc while your gated celestials are tearing through the undead army outside.&nbsp; You confuse their forces with illusions and astral projections, and if the BBEG runs away, you divine his trail and go right after him.&nbsp; Because what's the point of even having level 30 if it feels just like level 1?I'm not claiming this is even what the goal is for 4E - extending the sweet spot could be purely a numerical change.&nbsp; This is mainly just a response to what I've often seen - the claim that the significant change in scope and strategy at higher levels is undesirable.&nbsp; While that may be the case for some campaigns, it certainly isn't universal.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="IceFractal, post: 3753558, member: 27704"] If by this they mean like 4-14 numerically, that's fine - I could do with some high-level battles that weren't over in the first round. However, if they mean 4-14 in terms of what a character can do - ever, then that's disappointing. Part of D&D is something that a lot of other RPGs don't have - dramatic, scope-altering character growth. You start out worrying about rations and hiding from bandits, and eventually you reach metahuman power, opening portals to the nine hells so you can track down a Pit Fiend that's been annoying you and turn it into a paperweight. There's plenty of games that start in low-level, realistic terms - and then stay there. And I'm not saying those are bad, but they aren't D&D. Likewise, there's games that start out already at a cosmic power scale. Also fine, but that cosmic power just doesn't taste as sweet when it's nothing more than the standard. . But in D&D, there's nothing sweeter than coming back to the obstacles and foes that tormented you 10 levels ago, and just going right through them, not slowing down. Come back to that mountain range you lost all the pack mules on and BOOM, teleport right past it. Fly over those swamps you trudged through, and vaporize all the goblins that hounded you every night, without even breaking a sweat. Tell the high-priest "Screw it, we're going to go talk to Pelor in person." And something like raiding the BBEG's castle [I]should[/I] feel different at epic levels than it did at 3rd level. You don't just walk up to the "Drawbridge +20" and fight the Paragon orc guards and dodge the "30d6 Hot Oil". You jump right into the middle of the place and start wreaking some havoc while your gated celestials are tearing through the undead army outside. You confuse their forces with illusions and astral projections, and if the BBEG runs away, you divine his trail and go right after him. Because what's the point of even [I]having[/I] level 30 if it feels just like level 1? I'm not claiming this is even what the goal is for 4E - extending the sweet spot could be purely a numerical change. This is mainly just a response to what I've often seen - the claim that the significant change in scope and strategy at higher levels is undesirable. While that may be the case for some campaigns, it certainly isn't universal. [/QUOTE]

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