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<blockquote data-quote="Reynard" data-source="post: 3813643" data-attributes="member: 467">I think you are missing my point, probably because I am not explaining it very well.&nbsp; If you take out the mechanics changes between editions for a second (and yes, i know, mechaincs have a lot to do with the tone and inherent playstyle, but bear with me) and look at the implicit setting and Core fluff (and it is important to make the distinction between fluff and Core fluff), you have a relatively consistent subgenre of fantasy that can be called D&amp;D.&nbsp; There's been refinements and modifications, certainly, but not the kind of absolute overhaul that we are being &quot;teased&quot; with for 4E.On the mechanical side, if you take the Core, even 3E didn't make a huge divergence from the default assumptions of D&amp;D -- and in fact intentionally returned to some of the old AD&amp;D1 concepts that had been lost in 2E -- expct in a couple places (race-class-level limits is one, multiclassing in another).&nbsp; As I said, it was a &quot;Back to basics&quot; approach.&nbsp; Remember that 3E grabbed a whole bunch of lapsed gamers that hadn't played in 10 years and got them excited about D&amp;D because although it was different, 3E was recognizable to them.&nbsp; 4E appears to be going the other route, seeking out the non-gamer (TTRPG gamer, anyway) and trying to make it familiar to them and therefore changing its tone and mechanics to match that with which they are familiar -- things like WoW and Guild Wars and such.I keep trying to make it clear -- and I am obviously not doing a good job at it -- that me saying &quot;it ain't D&amp;D&quot; is my feelings and perspective on it, based on 22 years of playing and running the game.&nbsp; there's lots of &quot;car guys&quot; out there that would look at the new model of a Dodge and say &quot;that ain't no dodge&quot; because it is sleek and sexy and not a Charger or (tee!) Dart.And note also that i am talking largely about the Core game -- PHB, DMG and MM.&nbsp; Every edition has veered off in strange and interesting directions with supplements and settings.&nbsp; Some are to my liking, some aren't.&nbsp; that's okay.&nbsp; Supplements and setting are purely optional.&nbsp; But the core game, the one that is the common language, should maintain that core experience of D&amp;D -- I think it is one of the most important factors in why D&amp;D has always been the #1 RPG.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Reynard, post: 3813643, member: 467"] I think you are missing my point, probably because I am not explaining it very well. If you take out the mechanics changes between editions for a second (and yes, i know, mechaincs have a lot to do with the tone and inherent playstyle, but bear with me) and look at the implicit setting and Core fluff (and it is important to make the distinction between fluff and Core fluff), you have a relatively consistent subgenre of fantasy that can be called D&D. There's been refinements and modifications, certainly, but not the kind of absolute overhaul that we are being "teased" with for 4E. On the mechanical side, if you take the Core, even 3E didn't make a huge divergence from the default assumptions of D&D -- and in fact intentionally returned to some of the old AD&D1 concepts that had been lost in 2E -- expct in a couple places (race-class-level limits is one, multiclassing in another). As I said, it was a "Back to basics" approach. Remember that 3E grabbed a whole bunch of lapsed gamers that hadn't played in 10 years and got them excited about D&D because although it was different, 3E was recognizable to them. 4E appears to be going the other route, seeking out the non-gamer (TTRPG gamer, anyway) and trying to make it familiar to them and therefore changing its tone and mechanics to match that with which they are familiar -- things like WoW and Guild Wars and such. I keep trying to make it clear -- and I am obviously not doing a good job at it -- that me saying "it ain't D&D" is my feelings and perspective on it, based on 22 years of playing and running the game. there's lots of "car guys" out there that would look at the new model of a Dodge and say "that ain't no dodge" because it is sleek and sexy and not a Charger or (tee!) Dart. And note also that i am talking largely about the Core game -- PHB, DMG and MM. Every edition has veered off in strange and interesting directions with supplements and settings. Some are to my liking, some aren't. that's okay. Supplements and setting are purely optional. But the core game, the one that is the common language, should maintain that core experience of D&D -- I think it is one of the most important factors in why D&D has always been the #1 RPG. [/QUOTE]

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