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<blockquote data-quote="Magus Coeruleus" data-source="post: 4002315" data-attributes="member: 1704"><p>Ok, let me see if I get this--are you saying that in 3e there was increasing complexity with level in the stats and now it's complexity with level from more or more complex exception-based abilities?&nbsp; If so, I'm not sure I see that because I think in 3e it wasn't supposed to be more complex with BAB, AC, etc., but rather just that the math didn't actually work out to have the right kinds of probabilities of success and failure for level-appropriate challenges, whereas in 4e supposedly it will.&nbsp; For the abilities, I was under the impression that they intend to limit the complexity of even the exception-based abilities, or rather the number of them you need to keep track of, at higher levels in 4e.&nbsp; Thus, even though there are more and more feats and talents, etc., I have the idea that they intend to make them less complicated to use so that you don't have an exploding number of options but rather can still reasonably keep track.&nbsp; Ok, I'm stopping here because I may be commenting on an argument while still not having it right.&nbsp; Maybe you could help with a concrete example?&nbsp; For instance, say in 3e a character of level X will do this like so and then at level X=Y will do it this way, whereas in 4e it seems like from level X to level X+Y it will be&nbsp; that way, and you don't see why the same idea couldn't just be implemented in yet this other way.</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="Magus Coeruleus, post: 4002315, member: 1704"] Ok, let me see if I get this--are you saying that in 3e there was increasing complexity with level in the stats and now it's complexity with level from more or more complex exception-based abilities? If so, I'm not sure I see that because I think in 3e it wasn't supposed to be more complex with BAB, AC, etc., but rather just that the math didn't actually work out to have the right kinds of probabilities of success and failure for level-appropriate challenges, whereas in 4e supposedly it will. For the abilities, I was under the impression that they intend to limit the complexity of even the exception-based abilities, or rather the number of them you need to keep track of, at higher levels in 4e. Thus, even though there are more and more feats and talents, etc., I have the idea that they intend to make them less complicated to use so that you don't have an exploding number of options but rather can still reasonably keep track. Ok, I'm stopping here because I may be commenting on an argument while still not having it right. Maybe you could help with a concrete example? For instance, say in 3e a character of level X will do this like so and then at level X=Y will do it this way, whereas in 4e it seems like from level X to level X+Y it will be that way, and you don't see why the same idea couldn't just be implemented in yet this other way. [/QUOTE]

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