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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4e's Equivalent to Pathfinder
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5810214" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Well, honestly, I'd say it is MORE accurate in terms of adventures. Settings I don't find are too heavily system dependent, but 4e does really TRY to get out of your way there at least. I think that some more unusual setting concepts could work with 4e. For instance I built a "medieval romance" setting. It works QUITE well. 4e mechanics support it nicely, no need for out-of-genre healbots or blaster wizards running around. PCs can be nice bands of knights, etc. I won't say there aren't some games made specifically for this genre, but 4e has better core mechanics than things like Pendragon for sure.</p><p></p><p>As for ADVENTURES. Gawd where do I start! A good 4e adventure to me should read like an action adventure movie. Stuff should be BIGGER THAN LIFE, lots bigger! Not absurd, but big and bold and cut in straightforward chunks. Fighting your way through a maze of underground rooms? Bleh, KotS was the least appropriate adventure ever made for a game system. Not the worst, but the most ridiculously badly suited. The situation hasn't improved. Now and then there was an adventure on DDI that seemed to manage to "get it", at least halfway. </p><p></p><p>The werewolf adventure that came out a few months back there wasn't bad, it didn't get stuck in a single spot and the bad guys were decent. It still didn't quite hit it with the environment though.</p><p></p><p>My adventures are filled with collapsing mines, rides on minecarts, explosions, floods, unstoppable death traps, rapid reversals, falling, sliding, running, jumping, flying, falling, god make it MOOOOOVVVVVVEEEEEEE. Every time some PC fails a skill check, they create a new cool complication and hang by just that much more of a thread. Your fate isn't to be threatened by some orc, bleh! (yeah, they're A threat, but more to make there be threats to contrast the real threats to). No, the threat to your character is to fall into the hideous pit of darkness, to be experimented on by the mad mage, to have the gem of madness grafted to your forehead so you will be enslaved to the evil god. Those are THREATS. Defeating that is cool. lol.</p><p></p><p>And we have a system that does it so well because you have such great rules for doing any wacky thing, so nice and transparent and logically complete yet open-ended. Characters are durable enough that the players will take the big risks, survive the bumps and bruises, and manage to hang on by a thread, burn an AP, pull a Second Wind, whip out a daily and claw their way back from the brink.</p><p></p><p>No, 4e is just basically utterly untapped. Not even close. Pathetic really. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, maybe I'm spoiled, lol. Still, having DDI access roughly halves the prep time for my games. I just tend to do very little original monster design anymore, which was always the big time suck (it was of course NPCs back in the pre-4e days, but...). Of course it is still easier than previous e's. I just don't have masses of time and energy these days for the more trivial stuff. I want to spend my time on adventure ideas and campaign concepts, and noodling away on my homebrew setting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5810214, member: 82106"] Well, honestly, I'd say it is MORE accurate in terms of adventures. Settings I don't find are too heavily system dependent, but 4e does really TRY to get out of your way there at least. I think that some more unusual setting concepts could work with 4e. For instance I built a "medieval romance" setting. It works QUITE well. 4e mechanics support it nicely, no need for out-of-genre healbots or blaster wizards running around. PCs can be nice bands of knights, etc. I won't say there aren't some games made specifically for this genre, but 4e has better core mechanics than things like Pendragon for sure. As for ADVENTURES. Gawd where do I start! A good 4e adventure to me should read like an action adventure movie. Stuff should be BIGGER THAN LIFE, lots bigger! Not absurd, but big and bold and cut in straightforward chunks. Fighting your way through a maze of underground rooms? Bleh, KotS was the least appropriate adventure ever made for a game system. Not the worst, but the most ridiculously badly suited. The situation hasn't improved. Now and then there was an adventure on DDI that seemed to manage to "get it", at least halfway. The werewolf adventure that came out a few months back there wasn't bad, it didn't get stuck in a single spot and the bad guys were decent. It still didn't quite hit it with the environment though. My adventures are filled with collapsing mines, rides on minecarts, explosions, floods, unstoppable death traps, rapid reversals, falling, sliding, running, jumping, flying, falling, god make it MOOOOOVVVVVVEEEEEEE. Every time some PC fails a skill check, they create a new cool complication and hang by just that much more of a thread. Your fate isn't to be threatened by some orc, bleh! (yeah, they're A threat, but more to make there be threats to contrast the real threats to). No, the threat to your character is to fall into the hideous pit of darkness, to be experimented on by the mad mage, to have the gem of madness grafted to your forehead so you will be enslaved to the evil god. Those are THREATS. Defeating that is cool. lol. And we have a system that does it so well because you have such great rules for doing any wacky thing, so nice and transparent and logically complete yet open-ended. Characters are durable enough that the players will take the big risks, survive the bumps and bruises, and manage to hang on by a thread, burn an AP, pull a Second Wind, whip out a daily and claw their way back from the brink. No, 4e is just basically utterly untapped. Not even close. Pathetic really. Well, maybe I'm spoiled, lol. Still, having DDI access roughly halves the prep time for my games. I just tend to do very little original monster design anymore, which was always the big time suck (it was of course NPCs back in the pre-4e days, but...). Of course it is still easier than previous e's. I just don't have masses of time and energy these days for the more trivial stuff. I want to spend my time on adventure ideas and campaign concepts, and noodling away on my homebrew setting. [/QUOTE]
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