Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4E's New Direction: Giving the game back to the DM.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 5294650" data-attributes="member: 5143"><p>Rule 0 only works when you don't have a section in the DMG telling you how balanced the rules are due to years of playtesting and that although you CAN change the rules, you shouldn't. It explains that players expect the rules to work a certain way and changing them without letting them know and discussing it with them can cause problems.</p><p></p><p>3.0 and 3.5 both were worded in such a way as to say "Here are lists of things you can take and exactly what they do when you take them. Oh....and incidentally, it's possible your DM says no to you taking one of them. But unless they say otherwise, this is how the game works."</p><p></p><p>This is in contrast to the way that 2e worked. For instance, in 2e there were a list of magic items. The book basically said "How you get these items is up to your DM."</p><p></p><p>In 3e, you get a list of "You should give out X magic items each level, as well as X gold. Magic items can be purchased for gold. If a PC has the correct amount of gold they should be able to buy an item provided they are in a big enough city. Here's how big a city needs to be to have magic items below a certain cost. Oh, and these rules can be changed if you really want to. But keep in mind these rules were playtested and are balanced and it's difficult to know long term what a change to the rules can do. So be careful."</p><p></p><p>And it was right. Change what magic items cost and you can make one item much better than all the others. Remove purchasing of magic items and then suddenly item creation feats become much, much more powerful.</p><p></p><p>It's a matter of expectations. Every player I've ever had in both 3.0 and 3.5 assumed they'd be able to buy the items they wanted for their character when they wanted as long as they had enough gold...and figured they would have enough gold since the guidelines for giving out gold gave them enough. If I decided to change something and use rule 0 it was filled with complaining and rewriting people's characters since they were no fun(or at least less fun) for people to play when the default assumptions weren't part of the game.</p><p></p><p>An example I always use is the time during our very first 3.0 game where our DM decided partway through our 4th or 5th session that he hated flatfootedness. He didn't read the book very effectively before he started DMing and had no idea that people lost their Dex modifier to AC before they first acted. He thought it was dumb and removed it. Which immediately removed about 30% of the time my Rogue with Improved Initiative got to use his Sneak Attack and caused me to ask him if I could make a different character.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 5294650, member: 5143"] Rule 0 only works when you don't have a section in the DMG telling you how balanced the rules are due to years of playtesting and that although you CAN change the rules, you shouldn't. It explains that players expect the rules to work a certain way and changing them without letting them know and discussing it with them can cause problems. 3.0 and 3.5 both were worded in such a way as to say "Here are lists of things you can take and exactly what they do when you take them. Oh....and incidentally, it's possible your DM says no to you taking one of them. But unless they say otherwise, this is how the game works." This is in contrast to the way that 2e worked. For instance, in 2e there were a list of magic items. The book basically said "How you get these items is up to your DM." In 3e, you get a list of "You should give out X magic items each level, as well as X gold. Magic items can be purchased for gold. If a PC has the correct amount of gold they should be able to buy an item provided they are in a big enough city. Here's how big a city needs to be to have magic items below a certain cost. Oh, and these rules can be changed if you really want to. But keep in mind these rules were playtested and are balanced and it's difficult to know long term what a change to the rules can do. So be careful." And it was right. Change what magic items cost and you can make one item much better than all the others. Remove purchasing of magic items and then suddenly item creation feats become much, much more powerful. It's a matter of expectations. Every player I've ever had in both 3.0 and 3.5 assumed they'd be able to buy the items they wanted for their character when they wanted as long as they had enough gold...and figured they would have enough gold since the guidelines for giving out gold gave them enough. If I decided to change something and use rule 0 it was filled with complaining and rewriting people's characters since they were no fun(or at least less fun) for people to play when the default assumptions weren't part of the game. An example I always use is the time during our very first 3.0 game where our DM decided partway through our 4th or 5th session that he hated flatfootedness. He didn't read the book very effectively before he started DMing and had no idea that people lost their Dex modifier to AC before they first acted. He thought it was dumb and removed it. Which immediately removed about 30% of the time my Rogue with Improved Initiative got to use his Sneak Attack and caused me to ask him if I could make a different character. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4E's New Direction: Giving the game back to the DM.
Top