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<blockquote data-quote="william_nova" data-source="post: 4247952" data-attributes="member: 61015">This was brought up over in Lizard's play test review of KotS, but I thought since I had the same exact comment/question it would make more sense to open a thread dedicated to it.I'm a little confuzzled on how to rule this one also.&nbsp; I'm struggling to get the &quot;feel&quot; of the mechanics&nbsp; so as to be more easily able get in the heads of the devs.&nbsp; I'm guessing here the way it's meant to function is more nerfy than 3e, and certainly more nerfed than 2e.&nbsp; Not only do you get a save, but you get a save vs. being slowed, then you get a save vs sleep, then you save every round to keep sleeping.&nbsp; Sounds more like they're trying to say &quot;fights are tough, don't rely on wizard tricks to save you in 4e&quot; which I can appreciate, but will take some getting used to.So do I have this right?&nbsp; I cast sleep, roll me die.&nbsp; If I beat the defence the target is slowed.&nbsp; Then at the end of the target's round the DM rolls a save, and if it fails, it falls asleep at the end of its turn, so it gets to act still before the sleep effect takes hold.&nbsp; Then on subsequent turns it gets to save once on its turn, and any save breaks the sleep.&nbsp; That sound about right?I'm especially curious about the part I put in bold.&nbsp; Does the target really get to take an action before it goes to sleep?&nbsp; No more last resort &quot;sleep saves the MU's bacon&quot; anymore?I humbly submit my greasy mess of a question to the rules gods who inhabit this forum.&nbsp; &nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="william_nova, post: 4247952, member: 61015"] This was brought up over in Lizard's play test review of KotS, but I thought since I had the same exact comment/question it would make more sense to open a thread dedicated to it. I'm a little confuzzled on how to rule this one also. I'm struggling to get the "feel" of the mechanics so as to be more easily able get in the heads of the devs. I'm guessing here the way it's meant to function is more nerfy than 3e, and certainly more nerfed than 2e. Not only do you [I]get[/I] a save, but you get a save vs. being slowed, then you get a save vs sleep, then you save [I]every[/I] round to keep sleeping. Sounds more like they're trying to say "fights are tough, don't rely on wizard tricks to save you in 4e" which I can appreciate, but will take some getting used to. So do I have this right? I cast sleep, roll me die. If I beat the defence the target is slowed. Then at the end of the target's round the DM rolls a save, and if it fails, it falls asleep at the end of its turn, [B]so it gets to act still before the sleep effect takes hold.[/B] Then on subsequent turns it gets to save once on its turn, and any save breaks the sleep. That sound about right? I'm especially curious about the part I put in bold. Does the target really get to take an action before it goes to sleep? No more last resort "sleep saves the MU's bacon" anymore? I humbly submit my greasy mess of a question to the rules gods who inhabit this forum. :D [/QUOTE]

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