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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Barastrondo" data-source="post: 5252441" data-attributes="member: 3820"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haagenti" target="_blank">Goetic origins aside</a>, I have to confess that a concept of "demons" that doesn't allow for demon lords of alchemy feels a touch limited for my tastes. If you take artifice away as "not very demonic," then demons with swords and whips and daggers and axes and hammers and three-headed flails all start looking suspiciously out of character. I don't particularly want all my demons to be using claws and rocks because nobody in the Abyss can stand at an anvil for very long without flipping out and burning the forge down, and I'm not wild about the idea that the Abyss imports craftsmen and weapons en masse, either. ("Tuesday is Marilith night: buy 5 cruelly curved swords, get the sixth free!") There's something really interesting about demonically forged items, and I think it loses something if demons aren't the ones crafting them.Part of the problem may be that the philosophical rationale for demons as "pure embodiments of destructive chaos" clashes with the inspiration for the appearance and role of demons, which seems to be derived from classic demonology (in which demons aren't very differentiated from "devils") and a heaping helping of fantasy fiction (Moorcock's a particular influence). If you like the philosophy, the visual inspiration starts being jarring, and if you like the inspiration, the philosophy's kind of imperfect. I tend to favor the inspiration and then devise my own philosophy, so guys like Haagenti are a nice start for me.</blockquote>

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