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4th ed, the Good & the Bad?
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 3961480" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Thanks to previous posters for generating the lists:</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> NO MORE LEVEL DRAIN - <span style="color: Yellow">Bad. I'm another old-time viking-helmed RBDM whose players had better expect bad things to happen to their characters, 'cause they will; and levels are fair game.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> NO MORE (temporary) ABILITY DRAIN - <span style="color: Yellow">Good. Oddly enough, given what I've just said, temporary ability drain (or enhancement) generates more paperwork headaches than it's worth.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> NO MORE SAVE-OR-DIE - <span style="color: Yellow">Bad. It's a dice-based game and random chance is sometimes a biznitch, for both good and bad.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> NO MORE ETHICAL ALIGNMENTS - <span style="color: Yellow">Leaning toward bad. I don't mind the idea of an "unaligned" alignment, but I see vast potential for abuse. The DM should just assign the alignment based on the character's actions.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> SNEAK ATTACK ON ANYTHING - <span style="color: Yellow">Leaning toward bad. Sometimes, Rogues (and all characters, for that matter) just gotta suck it up and admit they can't help out very much in a given situation.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> FASTER GAME MECHANICS - <span style="color: Yellow">Jury's out. Verdict comes in once we see how much realism gets sacrificed on the altar of efficiency, and how efficient it all really turns out to be.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> FASTER (N)PC CREATION - <span style="color: Yellow">Very Good. (as long as I'm allowed to pretend point-buy does not exist...)</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> NO MORE EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF MAGIC ITEMS - <span style="color: Yellow">Good. That said, I don't mind PCs finding lots of magic provided it is both risky to use and fragile...easy come, easy go.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> NO MORE (or less) VANCIAN CASTING - <span style="color: Yellow">Jury's out. I'm very dubious about per-encounter abilities in general, but I despise spell pre-memorization, so let's see what they come up with.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> NO MORE SPELL SCHOOLS - <span style="color: Yellow">Good. Excellent if Illusionist and Necromancer get their own base classes.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> FOCUS ITEMS - <span style="color: Yellow">Jury's out. Verdict comes in once we see how they work.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> SKILL SYSTEM REVAMP - <span style="color: Yellow">Leaning toward good. The simpler, the better; rating becomes excellent if "skills" (gather info, intimidate, etc.) that replace role-play are toned down or eliminated as well.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> BASIC RACES CHANGES - <span style="color: Yellow">Leaning toward bad. Gnomes I can take or leave, and I'm neutral to the elf changes; but dragonborn and tieflings as base races are a big step in a non-traditional direction I'm not sure the game wants to go. D+D has become a game of tradition; if one tires of the traditions there are many other games out there one can try, safe in knowledge that traditional D+D will always be there.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> RACIAL PANTHEONS GETTING THE BOOT - <span style="color: Yellow">Very Bad. The races' cultures are largely defined by their pantheons. I'd rather see racial pantheons expanded...surely Humans aren't the only race with more than one pantheon. While we're at it, I'd also prefer to see more reference to real-world pantheons e.g. Greek, Roman, Norse, in the game</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> ELIMINATION OF PRESTIGE CLASSES - <span style="color: Yellow">Very Good. They had gotten completely out of hand in 3e. There needs only to be a section in the DMG instructing DMs how to design their own PrC's as an optional extra, and let people do their own thing to suit their game.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> EFFORT TO BALANCE FEATS - <span style="color: Yellow">Jury's out. Verdict comes in once we see if they really are balanced (and balance can be overdone). I also hope we see fewer feats overall; they, like prestige classes, just got out of hand in 3e.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> PARTY ROLES - DEFENDER, LEADER, ETC. - <span style="color: Yellow">Jury's out. Verdict comes in once we see how they work and-or whether they really mean anything at all.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> POINTS OF LIGHT SETTING DESIGN - <span style="color: Yellow">Good. It trends toward a grittier game.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"> LACK OF BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY - <span style="color: Yellow">Bad. And I said the same thing about 3e. See above re: tradition.</span> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></li> </ol><p></p><p>Lanefan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 3961480, member: 29398"] Thanks to previous posters for generating the lists: [list=1] [*] NO MORE LEVEL DRAIN - [COLOR=Yellow]Bad. I'm another old-time viking-helmed RBDM whose players had better expect bad things to happen to their characters, 'cause they will; and levels are fair game.[/COLOR] [*] NO MORE (temporary) ABILITY DRAIN - [COLOR=Yellow]Good. Oddly enough, given what I've just said, temporary ability drain (or enhancement) generates more paperwork headaches than it's worth.[/COLOR] [*] NO MORE SAVE-OR-DIE - [COLOR=Yellow]Bad. It's a dice-based game and random chance is sometimes a biznitch, for both good and bad.[/COLOR] [*] NO MORE ETHICAL ALIGNMENTS - [COLOR=Yellow]Leaning toward bad. I don't mind the idea of an "unaligned" alignment, but I see vast potential for abuse. The DM should just assign the alignment based on the character's actions.[/COLOR] [*] SNEAK ATTACK ON ANYTHING - [COLOR=Yellow]Leaning toward bad. Sometimes, Rogues (and all characters, for that matter) just gotta suck it up and admit they can't help out very much in a given situation.[/COLOR] [*] FASTER GAME MECHANICS - [COLOR=Yellow]Jury's out. Verdict comes in once we see how much realism gets sacrificed on the altar of efficiency, and how efficient it all really turns out to be.[/COLOR] [*] FASTER (N)PC CREATION - [COLOR=Yellow]Very Good. (as long as I'm allowed to pretend point-buy does not exist...)[/COLOR] [*] NO MORE EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF MAGIC ITEMS - [COLOR=Yellow]Good. That said, I don't mind PCs finding lots of magic provided it is both risky to use and fragile...easy come, easy go.[/COLOR] [*] NO MORE (or less) VANCIAN CASTING - [COLOR=Yellow]Jury's out. I'm very dubious about per-encounter abilities in general, but I despise spell pre-memorization, so let's see what they come up with.[/COLOR] [*] NO MORE SPELL SCHOOLS - [COLOR=Yellow]Good. Excellent if Illusionist and Necromancer get their own base classes.[/COLOR] [*] FOCUS ITEMS - [COLOR=Yellow]Jury's out. Verdict comes in once we see how they work.[/COLOR] [*] SKILL SYSTEM REVAMP - [COLOR=Yellow]Leaning toward good. The simpler, the better; rating becomes excellent if "skills" (gather info, intimidate, etc.) that replace role-play are toned down or eliminated as well.[/COLOR] [*] BASIC RACES CHANGES - [COLOR=Yellow]Leaning toward bad. Gnomes I can take or leave, and I'm neutral to the elf changes; but dragonborn and tieflings as base races are a big step in a non-traditional direction I'm not sure the game wants to go. D+D has become a game of tradition; if one tires of the traditions there are many other games out there one can try, safe in knowledge that traditional D+D will always be there.[/COLOR] [*] RACIAL PANTHEONS GETTING THE BOOT - [COLOR=Yellow]Very Bad. The races' cultures are largely defined by their pantheons. I'd rather see racial pantheons expanded...surely Humans aren't the only race with more than one pantheon. While we're at it, I'd also prefer to see more reference to real-world pantheons e.g. Greek, Roman, Norse, in the game[/COLOR] [*] ELIMINATION OF PRESTIGE CLASSES - [COLOR=Yellow]Very Good. They had gotten completely out of hand in 3e. There needs only to be a section in the DMG instructing DMs how to design their own PrC's as an optional extra, and let people do their own thing to suit their game.[/COLOR] [*] EFFORT TO BALANCE FEATS - [COLOR=Yellow]Jury's out. Verdict comes in once we see if they really are balanced (and balance can be overdone). I also hope we see fewer feats overall; they, like prestige classes, just got out of hand in 3e.[/COLOR] [*] PARTY ROLES - DEFENDER, LEADER, ETC. - [COLOR=Yellow]Jury's out. Verdict comes in once we see how they work and-or whether they really mean anything at all.[/COLOR] [*] POINTS OF LIGHT SETTING DESIGN - [COLOR=Yellow]Good. It trends toward a grittier game.[/COLOR] [*] LACK OF BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY - [COLOR=Yellow]Bad. And I said the same thing about 3e. See above re: tradition.[/COLOR] :) [/list] Lanefan [/QUOTE]
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