Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
4th ed, the Good & the Bad?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Xanaqui" data-source="post: 3967894" data-attributes="member: 56394"><p><strong>My present thoughts</strong></p><p></p><p>1. NO MORE LEVEL DRAIN - <strong>Good</strong>. All versions of level drain were annoying both in implementation and in the potential long-term effects to PCs.</p><p>2. NO MORE ABILITY DRAIN - <strong>Neutral</strong>. I'll note that I preferred 3.xE ability score damage to prior editions' save or die mechanic, but there are other ways to approach poison (or perhaps ability score damage is still in).</p><p>3. NO MORE SAVE-OR-DIE - <strong>Good</strong>. I prefer death to be the result of multiple actions, not a single bad die roll.</p><p>4. NO MORE ETHICAL ALIGNMENTS - <strong>Neutral</strong>. I haven't really used ethical alignments in a long time.</p><p>5. SNEAK ATTACK ON ANYTHING - <strong>Good</strong>, assuming that they keep a class (Rogue) as a sneak attack monkey. Those monkeys get bored fast with immune to crit. creatures.</p><p>6. FASTER GAME MECHANICS - <strong>Good</strong>, although I'm a bit skeptical that it will be significant.</p><p>7. FASTER (N)PC CREATION - <strong>Good</strong>. Most of the NPC's stats (for the vast majority of NPCs) don't matter in the first place.</p><p>8. NO MORE EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF MAGIC ITEMS - <strong>Good</strong>; mostly to streamline high level PC generation.</p><p>9. NO MORE (or less) VANCIAN CASTING - <strong>Good</strong>. Heck, assuming it's done reasonably well, it's why I'll convert. All my recent 3.xE games have had pages of changes to spellcasting, and I have an entire alternate spellcasting system.</p><p>10. NO MORE SPELL SCHOOLS - <strong>Undecided</strong>. Frankly, I thought that merging the Illusionist into the Magic-User was one of the better changes in 2nd ed from 1st. However, that doesn't mean that either splitting up the 3E Wizard into different classes, or doing something else is a bad thing; I'll have to learn more.</p><p>11. FOCUS ITEMS - <strong>Undecided</strong>. If we get to get rid of Spell Component Pouches (& individual largely irrelevant material components for each spell) I like it. Otherwise, it depends on what they're doing with it.</p><p>12. SKILL SYSTEM REVAMP - <strong>Mildly good</strong>. I kind of like the present 3.xE system, with mild modifications. Frankly, I think that the largest revamp needed is to remove most spells which completely remove the need for skills. In any case, I'll have to see their imlpementation, but for now, mildly good.</p><p>13. BASIC RACES CHANGES - <strong>Mildly good</strong>. I like Gnomes (my last PC was a Gnome), and I mildly dislike yet another draconic humanoid (I'm pretty neutral to the other changes). However, this is likely to be more offset by what sounds like a much better implementation of the races themselves - it would be nice for race to matter more than marginally for some mid-level PCs.</p><p>14. RACIAL PANTHEONS GETTING THE BOOT - <strong>mildly bad</strong>. Personally, I like multiple pantheons, but they do take up a lot of space, so I can understand why they're getting axed. I'll have to note that of FR material, the god/goddess information is the material I use most - much more than the prestige classes, feats, map, or anything else FR-specific. On the other hand, I likely will be able to use my older material with few changes (since little of it is mechanical).</p><p>15. ELIMINATION OF PRESTIGE CLASSES - <strong>Undecided</strong>. There were several problems in implementation of prestige classes (LV1 typically being stronger than later levels; having to plan out their acquisition from character creation in most cases; making chaining partial prestige classes typically the best power-gaming option), but they were better than the 2nd ed Character Kits; I'll have to learn more about what replaces them (Paths?)</p><p>16. EFFORT TO BALANCE FEATS - <strong>Good</strong>. My 3.xE feat system is even larger than my 3.xE spell system.</p><p>17. PARTY ROLES - DEFENDER, LEADER, ETC. - <strong>Neutral</strong>. It seems like they're spelling out something that's been in the game since OD&D.</p><p>18. POINTS OF LIGHT SETTING DESIGN - <strong>Neutral</strong>. I prefer "point of light" to "points of light", but really, the default campaign setting has to be pretty atrocious to matter much - I'm going to change it.</p><p>19. LACK OF BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY - <strong>Good</strong>. Frankly, if it were perfectly backwards compatible, that would mean that there wouldn't be many major changes between 3.xE and 4E, and thus little reason to buy 4E in the first place. I would only consider it "bad" if I considered 3.xE to be extremely well designed.</p><p>20. NEW PALADIN SMITES- <strong>Good</strong>. It's nice to see some variety in what Paladins can do, even if Smite isn't necessarily my favorite of their 3.xe class features, and I don't think that I love all of the particular instances.</p><p>21. BLEEDING ABILITY- <strong>Mildly Good</strong>. It depends on what they use it for.</p><p>22. PARAGON PATHS and EPIC DESTINIES- <strong>Undecided</strong>; as I mention above, I'll have to see how they're implemented. I hope that it's harder to abuse than prestige classes.</p><p>23. DIFFERENT CLASSES - <strong>Undecided</strong>. If, as it sounds, they are making the classes more flexible, and more balanced in relation to each other, then this is (overall) good. I will miss several of the classes (Druid and Monk in particular).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Xanaqui, post: 3967894, member: 56394"] [b]My present thoughts[/b] 1. NO MORE LEVEL DRAIN - [B]Good[/B]. All versions of level drain were annoying both in implementation and in the potential long-term effects to PCs. 2. NO MORE ABILITY DRAIN - [B]Neutral[/B]. I'll note that I preferred 3.xE ability score damage to prior editions' save or die mechanic, but there are other ways to approach poison (or perhaps ability score damage is still in). 3. NO MORE SAVE-OR-DIE - [B]Good[/B]. I prefer death to be the result of multiple actions, not a single bad die roll. 4. NO MORE ETHICAL ALIGNMENTS - [B]Neutral[/B]. I haven't really used ethical alignments in a long time. 5. SNEAK ATTACK ON ANYTHING - [B]Good[/B], assuming that they keep a class (Rogue) as a sneak attack monkey. Those monkeys get bored fast with immune to crit. creatures. 6. FASTER GAME MECHANICS - [B]Good[/B], although I'm a bit skeptical that it will be significant. 7. FASTER (N)PC CREATION - [B]Good[/B]. Most of the NPC's stats (for the vast majority of NPCs) don't matter in the first place. 8. NO MORE EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF MAGIC ITEMS - [B]Good[/B]; mostly to streamline high level PC generation. 9. NO MORE (or less) VANCIAN CASTING - [B]Good[/B]. Heck, assuming it's done reasonably well, it's why I'll convert. All my recent 3.xE games have had pages of changes to spellcasting, and I have an entire alternate spellcasting system. 10. NO MORE SPELL SCHOOLS - [B]Undecided[/B]. Frankly, I thought that merging the Illusionist into the Magic-User was one of the better changes in 2nd ed from 1st. However, that doesn't mean that either splitting up the 3E Wizard into different classes, or doing something else is a bad thing; I'll have to learn more. 11. FOCUS ITEMS - [B]Undecided[/B]. If we get to get rid of Spell Component Pouches (& individual largely irrelevant material components for each spell) I like it. Otherwise, it depends on what they're doing with it. 12. SKILL SYSTEM REVAMP - [B]Mildly good[/B]. I kind of like the present 3.xE system, with mild modifications. Frankly, I think that the largest revamp needed is to remove most spells which completely remove the need for skills. In any case, I'll have to see their imlpementation, but for now, mildly good. 13. BASIC RACES CHANGES - [B]Mildly good[/B]. I like Gnomes (my last PC was a Gnome), and I mildly dislike yet another draconic humanoid (I'm pretty neutral to the other changes). However, this is likely to be more offset by what sounds like a much better implementation of the races themselves - it would be nice for race to matter more than marginally for some mid-level PCs. 14. RACIAL PANTHEONS GETTING THE BOOT - [B]mildly bad[/B]. Personally, I like multiple pantheons, but they do take up a lot of space, so I can understand why they're getting axed. I'll have to note that of FR material, the god/goddess information is the material I use most - much more than the prestige classes, feats, map, or anything else FR-specific. On the other hand, I likely will be able to use my older material with few changes (since little of it is mechanical). 15. ELIMINATION OF PRESTIGE CLASSES - [B]Undecided[/B]. There were several problems in implementation of prestige classes (LV1 typically being stronger than later levels; having to plan out their acquisition from character creation in most cases; making chaining partial prestige classes typically the best power-gaming option), but they were better than the 2nd ed Character Kits; I'll have to learn more about what replaces them (Paths?) 16. EFFORT TO BALANCE FEATS - [B]Good[/B]. My 3.xE feat system is even larger than my 3.xE spell system. 17. PARTY ROLES - DEFENDER, LEADER, ETC. - [B]Neutral[/B]. It seems like they're spelling out something that's been in the game since OD&D. 18. POINTS OF LIGHT SETTING DESIGN - [B]Neutral[/B]. I prefer "point of light" to "points of light", but really, the default campaign setting has to be pretty atrocious to matter much - I'm going to change it. 19. LACK OF BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY - [B]Good[/B]. Frankly, if it were perfectly backwards compatible, that would mean that there wouldn't be many major changes between 3.xE and 4E, and thus little reason to buy 4E in the first place. I would only consider it "bad" if I considered 3.xE to be extremely well designed. 20. NEW PALADIN SMITES- [B]Good[/B]. It's nice to see some variety in what Paladins can do, even if Smite isn't necessarily my favorite of their 3.xe class features, and I don't think that I love all of the particular instances. 21. BLEEDING ABILITY- [B]Mildly Good[/B]. It depends on what they use it for. 22. PARAGON PATHS and EPIC DESTINIES- [B]Undecided[/B]; as I mention above, I'll have to see how they're implemented. I hope that it's harder to abuse than prestige classes. 23. DIFFERENT CLASSES - [B]Undecided[/B]. If, as it sounds, they are making the classes more flexible, and more balanced in relation to each other, then this is (overall) good. I will miss several of the classes (Druid and Monk in particular). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
4th ed, the Good & the Bad?
Top