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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Phlebas" data-source="post: 3974947" data-attributes="member: 23810">Playing the wizard in a rogue-less party I've invested in a chime of opening but I'm not going to load up on divinations to replace the rogue - spells might be better but they are not an effective solution because they run out quickly and frankly I've found a fiendish ape called 'ook-ook' is a much better use for a 3rd level spell for the party in almost all circumstances.... Skills = a versatility limited only by your imagination (or a DM who doesn't give you more than a 20' x 20' room to work in...). And that, IMHO is what makes playing rogues enjoyable - you have the skill base to try different things all the timeTumble through line of skeletons, climb onto altar, take out necromancer..... Hide as guards run past, sleight of hand the amulet from the leader, Decipher the runes and deactivate the constuctHear the wizard chanting a spell, disable trap and exit stage leftbalance across chasm, open locked door and surprise the enemyetc etc.Could anybody other than a rogue try it? Sure, anybody other than rogue / bard / ~ranger succeed? unlikely. The skill points a rogue gets are fundamental to the class concept. I actually like the fact that for some monsters the rogue character has to think. The same as huge DR/immunity to crits makes martial types think, the same as SR / Resistance makes spell-casters think. The same as a large room with two exits, different coloured squares on the floor, and a deaths head symbol on the wall makes everybody think... the classics are classic for a reason.Just MHO and YMMV. In all honesty the fact that rogues sneak attack is limited / not-limited is so far down the list of things that will decide whether I convert to 4e or not I'll have to make a climb check (DC 15) to get that far down to read it......</blockquote>

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