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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 3975036" data-attributes="member: 710">Little of which can really help you defeat an enemy. Bypassing, maybe. But that's only you, what's with the rest of the party? (Especially with those players that actually want to beat down the enemies)Oops, the Necromancer is a lich - so taking him out actually meant "Save vs. Paralyzation!" Or lower level: The Necromancer that created the skeletons is dead since the time the Tomb was closed, approximately 10 centuries ago...Hide in plain sight? After you spent 2 minutes picking the lock open? Deciphering some runes on the fly? ANd what kind of non-standard construct are we speaking about?So you actually didn't want to stop the Wizard and instead let him slaughter your allies while you run away?... just as much as they surprise you, since they are 3 Bodaks. Your first thought would have been "Screw it, no sneak attack against them", but it's actually "AAArgh!"Okay, these were a few cheap shots. My issue with these examples are: 1) They are highly situational. Most constructs don't have secret switch to turn them off. Most enemy leaders don't carry any important amulets around. They might work, and I think they're cool if used. They don't really use the rules for solving the encounter. It's more playing the DM then playing the game.2) They don't rely on the core abilities on the character. Everybody has skills. The Rogues class abilities might say he has access to a lot of skills - but why does he need to put ranks in Decipher Script (in fact, which Rogue does), Use Magic Device (though which Rogue would want to miss that?), Disguse or any other skill on his list? He gets 8+INT to choose from, that's a lot, but it's not enough to cover them all, and it's possible to miss a lot of these skills if that's not what your character is about. The abilities you can really rely on for the Rogue are his class abilities, which include Sneak Attack. It is a core ability of the class, since he gets it every 2 levels!3) If these situations would work out fine, the Rogue would get all the spotlight. The rest of the characters are not required for the situation. I know that some people think that would be fine if there are other situations where another characters gets the full spotlight. But I think that's not what team play is about. Everyone should contribute significantly in all situations. Maybe someone might be a bit more effective, but he shouldn't been able to do the job without the help of others. I agree it's okay to have corner cases, and they will probably work out fine for the total game experience. But they should stay corner cases, they are spice that is best used in low doses. There are games that work the opposite - Shadowrun for example. There, Mage, Rigger and Decker/Hacker have their own "subgames" - that they play effectively alone! The rest of the players and characters are standing around doing nothing.</blockquote>

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