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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6073895" data-attributes="member: 82106">I'm not sure most people are all that hung up on questions of whether or not a game is pushing one agenda or another. I think it is all very much simpler. There are a LOT of people who want their version of D&D and have zero tolerance for mechanics, tone, or ANYTHING that isn't exactly that thing. I think the vast majority of the D&D community ossified into a groove they have no desire to get out of decades ago. 3.x served well-enough because for the most part if you mostly ignore the later books and don't MC too excessively you can basically play something that if you squint a tiny bit is pretty much 2e, which in turn is pretty much 1e, and thus not SUPER different from Basic etc. Different in some details, but not enough to push people out of their groove. Of course there are some folks that 3.x was too much for too, but far less.D&D is a community of mostly long-time players in their 30's and up with no desire to play anything new, at least when it comes to D&D. That's flat out all their is to it. 4e is enough different that it invoked the wrath of the "grognards", which is to say practically the whole D&D community these days, even if they seem unable to notice it in themselves. You're right, nobody gave 4e a break, and few tried to really figure out how to use it. Heck, barely anyone at WotC even bothered, which was why we got crap for support material. Honestly, looking at the monstrosity that DDN is, I think D&D is dead. Its going to lurch back into its OSR cave and it will abide their for decades to come, but I think DDN will linger as a curiosity. PF will remain as the most liberal incarnation, but I think Paizo is going to be stuck in a few years just like WotC is stuck now.Luckily there are still many of us who will simply continue playing 4e, it is very far from dead. I keep getting asked to start new 4e campaigns all the time <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> and I could basically care less what the games "agenda" is. Its an FRPG and we just play it, we don't ask questions <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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