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4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6074976" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Polymorphs? <em>Niche</em> spells? Anyone would think that there isn't <em>an entire class that gets Wild Shape at level 5</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If the supplements had fixed the problems with the fighter this might be a relevant point. None of them other than the Bo9S fixed the two fundamental problems - firstly that the fighter goes down like a chump on his will defence. Secondly that the fighter specialises in waving a pointy bit of metal around and there's a serious limit to the amount of things you can do with a pointy bit of metal, especially when a Level 13 Wizard is quite capable of not just <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw" target="_blank">Angel Summoning</a> (and that if they even bother with Summon Monster) but Angel Creation in the form of a <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/simulacrum.htm" target="_blank">Simulacrum</a> of a <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelSolar" target="_blank">Solar</a>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The playstyle the rules encourage <em>is a function of the rules</em>. If you play 3e trying to push the rules, it breaks and leads to ridiculous results that the rules don't warn you about. This is a problem with the rules.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Given that Paizo are <em>still</em> releasing a version of 3e, I don't know.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Citation needed that the criticisms are irrational.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Complete and utter nonsense. Polymorph is often brought up. But is not remotely niche compared to <em>Come and Get It</em>; one of almost a dozen options at level seven for one class. Healing Surges are routinely brought up <em>when they are less unrealistic than hit points in older editions.</em> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Older editions mostly don't have the same issue because even people who like older editions don't defend THAC0 (or worse yet the 1e lookup tables) much any more. Also because older editions don't have the same problem with wizard and cleric power levels 3.X has, or with fighter power levels.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Heh. You aren't far short of a full <a href="http://www.margaretweis.com/images/stories/bonus_content/sv_leadsheet.pdf" target="_blank">Smallville <em>PC</em> statblock</a> there. Or a FATE one. And a Leverage Mark (i.e. episode boss) has two strengths at d12, a weakness and a need at d4, and a colour ability at d8.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's enough to be useful.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6074976, member: 87792"] Polymorphs? [I]Niche[/I] spells? Anyone would think that there isn't [I]an entire class that gets Wild Shape at level 5[/I]. If the supplements had fixed the problems with the fighter this might be a relevant point. None of them other than the Bo9S fixed the two fundamental problems - firstly that the fighter goes down like a chump on his will defence. Secondly that the fighter specialises in waving a pointy bit of metal around and there's a serious limit to the amount of things you can do with a pointy bit of metal, especially when a Level 13 Wizard is quite capable of not just [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw"]Angel Summoning[/URL] (and that if they even bother with Summon Monster) but Angel Creation in the form of a [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/simulacrum.htm"]Simulacrum[/URL] of a [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelSolar"]Solar[/URL]. The playstyle the rules encourage [I]is a function of the rules[/I]. If you play 3e trying to push the rules, it breaks and leads to ridiculous results that the rules don't warn you about. This is a problem with the rules. Given that Paizo are [I]still[/I] releasing a version of 3e, I don't know. Citation needed that the criticisms are irrational. Complete and utter nonsense. Polymorph is often brought up. But is not remotely niche compared to [I]Come and Get It[/I]; one of almost a dozen options at level seven for one class. Healing Surges are routinely brought up [I]when they are less unrealistic than hit points in older editions.[/I] Older editions mostly don't have the same issue because even people who like older editions don't defend THAC0 (or worse yet the 1e lookup tables) much any more. Also because older editions don't have the same problem with wizard and cleric power levels 3.X has, or with fighter power levels. Heh. You aren't far short of a full [URL="http://www.margaretweis.com/images/stories/bonus_content/sv_leadsheet.pdf"]Smallville [I]PC[/I] statblock[/URL] there. Or a FATE one. And a Leverage Mark (i.e. episode boss) has two strengths at d12, a weakness and a need at d4, and a colour ability at d8. It's enough to be useful. [/QUOTE]
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