Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6075004" data-attributes="member: 87792">Far, far more than of the PHB powers section is devoted to Come and Get It.&nbsp; And including Alter Self?&nbsp; A lot.&nbsp; Almost all druids, the combat wizards, and the tricksters.And in apples to oranges comparisons, if you have a fighter armed with a banana, what happens then?&nbsp; Because that's a fair comparison for a wizard with spells selected randomly.&nbsp; A fighter with weapons selected randomly, including improvised weapons.&nbsp; Spell selection for a wizard is an in game choice, and most spells a wizard could take are ones that won't be generally useful.Wizards are meant to be smart.&nbsp; You seem to want the wizard's pointy hat to have the letter D on the front of it.And?&nbsp; This just shows that System Mastery is a thing in D&amp;D.Last time I checked, double digits were not 7.&nbsp; Personally I'd have said the wizard was ahead at level 1.<a href="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002" target="_blank">Polymorph isn't the only problem out there</a>.&nbsp; It's obviously broken, but there's plenty more where that came from.&nbsp; Tell me, is D&amp;D the only RPG you have ever played?&nbsp; Because there's plenty in there encouraging high prep time including the inane decision that PCs and NPCs use the same rules, the heavy simulationist element which means there's a 'right' answer, and a near-complete lack of improv tools.In Leverage, my most recent main villain of the caper's total stat block is:Connected d12Interbank CEO d12Savoyard d8Enemies d4Arrogant d4That's the biggest type of NPC statblock in the game. By comparison, a random unnamed mook in 3.5. [TABLE=&quot;class: statBlock&quot;] [TR=&quot;class: colHead&quot;] [TD][/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]Halfling, 1st-Level <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/warrior.htm" target="_blank">Warrior</a>[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#sizeAndType" target="_blank">Size/Type</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreaturesInCombat" target="_blank">Small</a> <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#humanoidType" target="_blank">Humanoid</a> (Halfling)[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#hitDice" target="_blank">Hit Dice</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]1d8+1 (5 hp)[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#initiative" target="_blank">Initiative</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]+1[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#speed" target="_blank">Speed</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]20 ft. (4 squares)[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#armorClass" target="_blank">Armor Class</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]16 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +3 studded leather, +1 light shield), touch 12, <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#flatFooted" target="_blank">flat-footed</a> 15[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#baseAttackGrapple" target="_blank">Base Attack/Grapple</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]+1/-3[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#attack" target="_blank">Attack</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]Longsword +3 melee (1d6/19-20) or <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#crossbowLight" target="_blank">light crossbow</a> +3 ranged (1d6/19-20)[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#fullAttack" target="_blank">Full Attack</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]Longsword +3 melee (1d6/19-20) or <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#crossbowLight" target="_blank">light crossbow</a> +3 ranged (1d6/19-20)[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#spaceReach" target="_blank">Space/Reach</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]5 ft./5 ft.[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#specialAttacksAndSpecialQualities" target="_blank">Special Attacks</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]Halfling traits[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#specialAttacksAndSpecialQualities" target="_blank">Special Qualities</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]Halfling traits[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#saves" target="_blank">Saves</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +0[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#abilities" target="_blank">Abilities</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]Str 11, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#skills" target="_blank">Skills</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm" target="_blank">Climb</a> +2, <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm" target="_blank">Hide</a> +4, <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm" target="_blank">Jump</a> -4, <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/listen.htm" target="_blank">Listen</a> +3, <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/moveSilently.htm" target="_blank">Move Silently</a> +1[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#feats" target="_blank">Feats</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFocus" target="_blank">Weapon Focus</a> (longsword)[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#environment" target="_blank">Environment</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]Warm plains (Deep halfling: Warm hills) (Tallfellow: Temperate forests)[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#organization" target="_blank">Organization</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]Company (2-4), squad (11-20 plus 2 3rd-level sergeants and 1&nbsp; leader of 3rd-6th level), or band (30-100 plus 100% noncombatants plus 1&nbsp; 3rd-level sergeant per 20 adults, 5 5th-level lieutenants, 3 7th-level&nbsp; captains, 6-10 <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dog.htm" target="_blank">dogs</a>, and 2-5 <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dogRiding.htm" target="_blank">riding dogs</a>)[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#challengeRating" target="_blank">Challenge Rating</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]½[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#treasure" target="_blank">Treasure</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]Standard[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#alignment" target="_blank">Alignment</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]Usually neutral[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#advancement" target="_blank">Advancement</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]By character class[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [/TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TR]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#levelAdjustment" target="_blank">Level Adjustment</a>:[/TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [TD]+0[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] That's how many stats?&nbsp; An entire mountain of nonsense I don't even have to think about.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6075004, member: 87792"] Far, far more than of the PHB powers section is devoted to Come and Get It. And including Alter Self? A lot. Almost all druids, the combat wizards, and the tricksters. And in apples to oranges comparisons, if you have a fighter armed with a banana, what happens then? Because that's a fair comparison for a wizard with spells selected randomly. A fighter with weapons selected randomly, including improvised weapons. Spell selection for a wizard is an [I]in game [/I]choice, and most spells a wizard could take are ones that won't be generally useful. Wizards are meant to be [I]smart[/I]. You seem to want the wizard's pointy hat to have the letter D on the front of it. And? This just shows that System Mastery is a thing in D&D. Last time I checked, double digits were not 7. Personally I'd have said the wizard was ahead at level 1. [URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002"]Polymorph isn't the only problem out there[/URL]. It's obviously broken, but there's plenty more where that came from. Tell me, is D&D the only RPG you have ever played? Because there's [I]plenty[/I] in there encouraging high prep time including the inane decision that PCs and NPCs use the same rules, the heavy simulationist element which means there's a 'right' answer, and a near-complete lack of improv tools. In Leverage, my most recent main villain of the caper's total stat block is: Connected d12 Interbank CEO d12 Savoyard d8 Enemies d4 Arrogant d4 That's the biggest type of NPC statblock [I]in the game[/I]. By comparison, a random unnamed mook in 3.5. [TABLE="class: statBlock"] [TR="class: colHead"] [TD] [/TD] [TD]Halfling, 1st-Level [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/warrior.htm"]Warrior[/URL] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#sizeAndType"]Size/Type[/URL]:[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreaturesInCombat"]Small[/URL] [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#humanoidType"]Humanoid[/URL] (Halfling) [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#hitDice"]Hit Dice[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]1d8+1 (5 hp) [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#initiative"]Initiative[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]+1 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#speed"]Speed[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]20 ft. (4 squares) [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#armorClass"]Armor Class[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]16 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +3 studded leather, +1 light shield), touch 12, [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#flatFooted"]flat-footed[/URL] 15 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#baseAttackGrapple"]Base Attack/Grapple[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]+1/-3 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#attack"]Attack[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]Longsword +3 melee (1d6/19-20) or [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#crossbowLight"]light crossbow[/URL] +3 ranged (1d6/19-20) [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#fullAttack"]Full Attack[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]Longsword +3 melee (1d6/19-20) or [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#crossbowLight"]light crossbow[/URL] +3 ranged (1d6/19-20) [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#spaceReach"]Space/Reach[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]5 ft./5 ft. [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#specialAttacksAndSpecialQualities"]Special Attacks[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]Halfling traits [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#specialAttacksAndSpecialQualities"]Special Qualities[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]Halfling traits [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#saves"]Saves[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +0[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#abilities"]Abilities[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]Str 11, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#skills"]Skills[/URL]:[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm"]Climb[/URL] +2, [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm"]Hide[/URL] +4, [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm"]Jump[/URL] -4, [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/listen.htm"]Listen[/URL] +3, [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/moveSilently.htm"]Move Silently[/URL] +1[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#feats"]Feats[/URL]:[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFocus"]Weapon Focus[/URL] (longsword)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#environment"]Environment[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]Warm plains (Deep halfling: Warm hills) (Tallfellow: Temperate forests)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#organization"]Organization[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]Company (2-4), squad (11-20 plus 2 3rd-level sergeants and 1 leader of 3rd-6th level), or band (30-100 plus 100% noncombatants plus 1 3rd-level sergeant per 20 adults, 5 5th-level lieutenants, 3 7th-level captains, 6-10 [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dog.htm"]dogs[/URL], and 2-5 [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dogRiding.htm"]riding dogs[/URL])[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#challengeRating"]Challenge Rating[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]½ [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#treasure"]Treasure[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]Standard[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#alignment"]Alignment[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]Usually neutral[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#advancement"]Advancement[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]By character class[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#levelAdjustment"]Level Adjustment[/URL]:[/TD] [TD]+0[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] That's [I]how many[/I] stats? An entire mountain of nonsense I don't even have to think about. [/QUOTE]

Verification