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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6075358" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>The most seriously distinguishing feature of pre-4e D&D is the magic system. Which encourages massive preparation and planning and in character optimisation as you have far more ability and requirement to plan than in just about any other RPG I can think of (especially in 3.X). However actually using it is the third rail of D&D. The second absolutely distinguishing feature is the rate of power growth. The third is hit points with no penalty for being hurt which encourages recklessness. Especially 3.X in which you can heal back up to full after every fight once you've bought a wand or two unless you're being kept really treasure poor.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You just named some. "Don't like action fantasy. Don't want high detail or time consuming combat. Like theatre of the mind. Want to play PCs who aren't adventurers. Want to play weedy PCs or in a crapsack world."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There are quite a few legacy elements there - 4e is <em>far</em> more like 3e than any othe of the couple of dozen games on my bookshelf with the arguable exception of the explicitely 4e based Gamma World; the only other game that comes <em>close</em> is WFRP 3e. And a couple of the legacy elements are the cause of some of the presentation problems 4e has (renaming hit points and healing surges to stun and wounds, and the extended rest = 8 hours spring to mind).</p><p></p><p>Hell, 4e is far, <em>far</em> more like 3e than my three Cortex Plus games (Leverage, Smallville and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying) are like each other or my two Apocalypse World Engine games are (Monsterhearts and Dungeon World) are like each other.</p><p></p><p>Now which of the games on my bookshelf <em>3e </em>is most like is an interesting question. With AD&D, 4e, and WFRP1/2e all having fairly good claims. And I think I'd give it to WFRP 1e.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Pathfinder has only outsold 4e since they gave up producing books for it. Stupid move on WotC's part - getting the players out of the habit of buying books.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6075358, member: 87792"] The most seriously distinguishing feature of pre-4e D&D is the magic system. Which encourages massive preparation and planning and in character optimisation as you have far more ability and requirement to plan than in just about any other RPG I can think of (especially in 3.X). However actually using it is the third rail of D&D. The second absolutely distinguishing feature is the rate of power growth. The third is hit points with no penalty for being hurt which encourages recklessness. Especially 3.X in which you can heal back up to full after every fight once you've bought a wand or two unless you're being kept really treasure poor. You just named some. "Don't like action fantasy. Don't want high detail or time consuming combat. Like theatre of the mind. Want to play PCs who aren't adventurers. Want to play weedy PCs or in a crapsack world." There are quite a few legacy elements there - 4e is [I]far[/I] more like 3e than any othe of the couple of dozen games on my bookshelf with the arguable exception of the explicitely 4e based Gamma World; the only other game that comes [I]close[/I] is WFRP 3e. And a couple of the legacy elements are the cause of some of the presentation problems 4e has (renaming hit points and healing surges to stun and wounds, and the extended rest = 8 hours spring to mind). Hell, 4e is far, [I]far[/I] more like 3e than my three Cortex Plus games (Leverage, Smallville and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying) are like each other or my two Apocalypse World Engine games are (Monsterhearts and Dungeon World) are like each other. Now which of the games on my bookshelf [I]3e [/I]is most like is an interesting question. With AD&D, 4e, and WFRP1/2e all having fairly good claims. And I think I'd give it to WFRP 1e. Pathfinder has only outsold 4e since they gave up producing books for it. Stupid move on WotC's part - getting the players out of the habit of buying books. [/QUOTE]
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