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4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
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<blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 6075668" data-attributes="member: 27160"><p>I think it has to be deeper than terminology, because it seems to come up a lot. Just as you are puzzled by [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION]'s comments, I am puzzled by what you write here, since what S'mon means seems blindingly obvious, to me - the sound I hear, reading his post, is that of a nail being hit squarely on the head.</p><p></p><p>I really do see 4e as offering something which older editions of D&D don't in the sense of control over one's character. I should be clear that such control is not necessarily an essential or even a <em>good</em> thing for all roleplaying styles - but it <strong><em>is</em></strong> essential for the style I find supported by 4e. That "something" is genuine control over your PC; not qualified control or conditional control or theoretical control, but <strong><em>real</em></strong> control, which is essential for the <strong><em><u>player</u></em></strong> (as opposed to the character) to be the driving force - the protagonist - in the game. What your PC's powers can do is not conditioned by what you can persuade the DM that they should be able to do, and does not have to measure up to some locally defined yardstick of "believability". Your character's powers do exactly what the rules say they do, in system terms; what that means in <em>world</em> terms, and whether that effect is "believable" or not, is for the others at the table to figure out - it's not your problem.</p><p></p><p>Knowing what your character can do, you can go ahead and "protagonise" in the game. Only Lady Luck (in the shape of the dice) or the antagonists can stop you. <em>That's</em> being a protagonist as it should be! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Balesir, post: 6075668, member: 27160"] I think it has to be deeper than terminology, because it seems to come up a lot. Just as you are puzzled by [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION]'s comments, I am puzzled by what you write here, since what S'mon means seems blindingly obvious, to me - the sound I hear, reading his post, is that of a nail being hit squarely on the head. I really do see 4e as offering something which older editions of D&D don't in the sense of control over one's character. I should be clear that such control is not necessarily an essential or even a [I]good[/I] thing for all roleplaying styles - but it [B][I]is[/I][/B] essential for the style I find supported by 4e. That "something" is genuine control over your PC; not qualified control or conditional control or theoretical control, but [B][I]real[/I][/B] control, which is essential for the [B][I][U]player[/U][/I][/B] (as opposed to the character) to be the driving force - the protagonist - in the game. What your PC's powers can do is not conditioned by what you can persuade the DM that they should be able to do, and does not have to measure up to some locally defined yardstick of "believability". Your character's powers do exactly what the rules say they do, in system terms; what that means in [I]world[/I] terms, and whether that effect is "believable" or not, is for the others at the table to figure out - it's not your problem. Knowing what your character can do, you can go ahead and "protagonise" in the game. Only Lady Luck (in the shape of the dice) or the antagonists can stop you. [I]That's[/I] being a protagonist as it should be! ;) [/QUOTE]
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