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<blockquote data-quote="Tequila Sunrise" data-source="post: 6075931" data-attributes="member: 40398">Whoa, you just took two very different issues and crammed them under one heading!1. Fighters who can't miss and thieves who can't fail opposed skill rolls is an issue of the d20 becoming obsolete. It's a game design issue.2. High level characters doing mile-high swan dives into lakes of lava and then climbing out ready to rumble is an issue of aesthetics. Some like it, some are ambivalent, some hate it. (I'm actually not sure this particular example is possible in any edition, except really really epic 3e...but I like the mental image!)Neither of these is what AbdulAlhazred is talking about. (Correct me if I'm wrong, AA.) Even from level 1, 4e gives PCs protection against random death. Goblin #17 can't kill you just by a lucky roll, and unless a crazy improvised plan involves a bottomless pit with lava at the bottom, getting creative isn't going to kill you.That's what 4e does that other editions don't.This has been my experience as well.The only setting I've ever given two turds about is Planescape, which was canonically ruined in its own edition. I've never met a gamer who cared what 4e did to FR, or the default cosmology, because so what? If you don't like it, use the version you do like.I can understand why gamers who play a lot of organized events might be miffed about fluff changes, but otherwise it's all static to my ears.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tequila Sunrise, post: 6075931, member: 40398"] Whoa, you just took two very different issues and crammed them under one heading! 1. Fighters who can't miss and thieves who can't fail opposed skill rolls is an issue of the d20 becoming obsolete. It's a game design issue. 2. High level characters doing mile-high swan dives into lakes of lava and then climbing out ready to rumble is an issue of aesthetics. Some like it, some are ambivalent, some hate it. (I'm actually not sure this particular example is possible in any edition, except really really epic 3e...but I like the mental image!) Neither of these is what AbdulAlhazred is talking about. (Correct me if I'm wrong, AA.) Even from level 1, 4e gives PCs protection against random death. Goblin #17 can't kill you just by a lucky roll, and unless a crazy improvised plan involves a bottomless pit with lava at the bottom, getting creative isn't going to kill you. That's what 4e does that other editions don't. This has been my experience as well. The only setting I've ever given two turds about is Planescape, which was canonically ruined in its own edition. I've never met a gamer who cared what 4e did to FR, or the default cosmology, because so what? If you don't like it, use the version you do like. I can understand why gamers who play a lot of organized events might be miffed about fluff changes, but otherwise it's all static to my ears. [/QUOTE]

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