Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="NewJeffCT" data-source="post: 6075954" data-attributes="member: 10784">Yes, it is.&nbsp; In 1E/2E D&amp;D, most campaigns went from level 1 to somewhere around level 9 or 10 at the end.&nbsp; So, when PCs got access to Raise Dead (at level 9), it was only something that happened at the very end of a campaign, when you've invested X number of sessions going up to that level (it took us 50+ very focused sessions to go from level 1 to level 8/9 at the end of a great 2E campaign.).&nbsp; So, it was something that was special, because you only did it at the very end of the campaign when the fate of the world is resting upon the PCs.&nbsp; If you really needed a Raise Dead before that, you had to go to a special high level NPC cleric and either spend a ton of money in church donations, or go on a special quest for them.In 3E/3.5E, the game was designed to go from level 1 to level 20 at the end.&nbsp; However, Raise Dead was still available at level 9 to the players.&nbsp; So, it was less than halfway through the typical campaign where the players got access to what used to be something very special and only available at the end of the campaign.&nbsp; It is now the equivalent of a 1E/2E cleric getting access to level 3 spells like Remove Curse or Cure Disease in terms of where it goes in the campaign.In 4E, the game was now designed to go from level 1 to level 30 at the end.&nbsp; But, Raise Dead was now a ritual available at level 8.&nbsp; So, less than 30% of the way through a campaign and the players can perform the previously awesome feat of bringing somebody back from the dead.&nbsp; In terms of comparison, it's like a 1E/2E cleric getting access to level 2 spells.&nbsp; The spell/ritual has lost its wonder.&nbsp; It's no longer a special act to bring somebody back from the dead - it's routine.I think that's the problem - when you can do the previously awesome things much earlier, it loses its sense of wonder.&nbsp; Why is it a big deal to bring somebody back from the dead now - it's only a level 8 ritual.&nbsp; it's now like it's an epic tier ritual?&nbsp; (edited to add - this is a criticism of 3e and 4e both)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="NewJeffCT, post: 6075954, member: 10784"] Yes, it is. In 1E/2E D&D, most campaigns went from level 1 to somewhere around level 9 or 10 at the end. So, when PCs got access to Raise Dead (at level 9), it was only something that happened at the very end of a campaign, when you've invested X number of sessions going up to that level (it took us 50+ very focused sessions to go from level 1 to level 8/9 at the end of a great 2E campaign.). So, it was something that was special, because you only did it at the very end of the campaign when the fate of the world is resting upon the PCs. If you really needed a Raise Dead before that, you had to go to a special high level NPC cleric and either spend a ton of money in church donations, or go on a special quest for them. In 3E/3.5E, the game was designed to go from level 1 to level 20 at the end. However, Raise Dead was still available at level 9 to the players. So, it was less than halfway through the typical campaign where the players got access to what used to be something very special and only available at the end of the campaign. It is now the equivalent of a 1E/2E cleric getting access to level 3 spells like Remove Curse or Cure Disease in terms of where it goes in the campaign. In 4E, the game was now designed to go from level 1 to level 30 at the end. But, Raise Dead was now a ritual available at level 8. So, less than 30% of the way through a campaign and the players can perform the previously awesome feat of bringing somebody back from the dead. In terms of comparison, it's like a 1E/2E cleric getting access to level 2 spells. The spell/ritual has lost its wonder. It's no longer a special act to bring somebody back from the dead - it's routine. I think that's the problem - when you can do the previously awesome things much earlier, it loses its sense of wonder. Why is it a big deal to bring somebody back from the dead now - it's only a level 8 ritual. it's now like it's an epic tier ritual? (edited to add - this is a criticism of 3e and 4e both) [/QUOTE]

Verification