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4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6076511" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Yeah, nobody is wrong. I certainly don't think you're wrong either. I think from my perspective there have been MANY other FRPGs but none of them really quite felt like it had the depth of material and overall toolbox feel of D&D. We played DQ, RQ, GURPS, some others probably, I forget all of them, but when I play 4e it feels like playing D&D to me, even if the rules are in some respects significantly different. There are a lot of points of congruency, enough that for my not-very-pedantic needs for D&D-esque canon it works well. I can see how a totally non-D&D FRPG might in some respects have been more palatable, but I'd never have even looked at it, nor probably would most people. Consider, even fairly successful FRPGs like Savage Worlds or Fantasy Craft are virtually unknown compared with 4e even. OTOH for me being willing to break with aspects of the old canon that I found pedantic and unhelpful was refreshing. You might have been happy in that sense with the lore of 3.5 replicated in every detail (or whatever, I don't know). I wouldn't. Maybe I'd have still picked up 4e and liked it, I don't know. </p><p></p><p>I just enjoyed the differences, you hated them. I enjoyed the samenesses too. Yes, a vanilla level 5 wizard tossing fireball into a room probably won't kill most goblins, which is a bit different from say 1e. The same wizard with a couple feats or the right item? Eh, actually it would probably work. I mean it really IMHO is not that much different. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, its moot now, and I think we understand each other. I can only conclude that there was never any hope that we would both be pleased. Likewise there's no hope that DDN will please both of us either. Sucks to be WotC. Ah well...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6076511, member: 82106"] Yeah, nobody is wrong. I certainly don't think you're wrong either. I think from my perspective there have been MANY other FRPGs but none of them really quite felt like it had the depth of material and overall toolbox feel of D&D. We played DQ, RQ, GURPS, some others probably, I forget all of them, but when I play 4e it feels like playing D&D to me, even if the rules are in some respects significantly different. There are a lot of points of congruency, enough that for my not-very-pedantic needs for D&D-esque canon it works well. I can see how a totally non-D&D FRPG might in some respects have been more palatable, but I'd never have even looked at it, nor probably would most people. Consider, even fairly successful FRPGs like Savage Worlds or Fantasy Craft are virtually unknown compared with 4e even. OTOH for me being willing to break with aspects of the old canon that I found pedantic and unhelpful was refreshing. You might have been happy in that sense with the lore of 3.5 replicated in every detail (or whatever, I don't know). I wouldn't. Maybe I'd have still picked up 4e and liked it, I don't know. I just enjoyed the differences, you hated them. I enjoyed the samenesses too. Yes, a vanilla level 5 wizard tossing fireball into a room probably won't kill most goblins, which is a bit different from say 1e. The same wizard with a couple feats or the right item? Eh, actually it would probably work. I mean it really IMHO is not that much different. Anyway, its moot now, and I think we understand each other. I can only conclude that there was never any hope that we would both be pleased. Likewise there's no hope that DDN will please both of us either. Sucks to be WotC. Ah well... [/QUOTE]
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