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4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6076517" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Yeah, and I understand the desire to have that mechanical hoop, OTOH my personal experience with hoops in AD&D or BECMI was they were more of a deterrent than anything. Somehow the Paladin never got around to sorting out his quest, the assassin just made do with being 11th level, etc. Usually the details the rules gave weren't that appropriate to the specifics of the character and setting anyway, so most of that stuff you still had to rewrite to use effectively (the paladin was perhaps the easiest to take as-is). </p><p></p><p>So, while I understand the desire to make the player "earn it" I think the 4e "come up with a good story for this" way works better for us in practice. Every PC is going to get that PP, and most of my players are at least modestly interested in RP and character building, so they do put out SOME effort there, even if they could potentially just slack. Admittedly there have been those that just chose "Daggermaster" or whatever, but you can't make the horse drink, and the same player that did that also wrote up 5 pages of background for each of her characters and RPed them rather well, she just ran out of steam at PP, and that was OK. </p><p></p><p>There are issues with the 4e approach. The "everyone hits level 11 at once" problem is the biggest issue I've had. You could get around it if the players don't all advance in lockstep, or you could delay some of them a bit as things work out in-game, etc but it is still not ideal. I don't have a real solution though. People have suggested using something more like 3e's Prestige Class solution. I dunno. I think the problem there is again no one specific 'path' to a given character element always works. Even with PrCs most characters are going to acquire them in the same level range I'd assume. Anyway, I dunno. I think some nuts are just hard to crack in RPGs. I have some ideas, but I am really avoiding the whole notion of writing yet another FRPG... lol.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6076517, member: 82106"] Yeah, and I understand the desire to have that mechanical hoop, OTOH my personal experience with hoops in AD&D or BECMI was they were more of a deterrent than anything. Somehow the Paladin never got around to sorting out his quest, the assassin just made do with being 11th level, etc. Usually the details the rules gave weren't that appropriate to the specifics of the character and setting anyway, so most of that stuff you still had to rewrite to use effectively (the paladin was perhaps the easiest to take as-is). So, while I understand the desire to make the player "earn it" I think the 4e "come up with a good story for this" way works better for us in practice. Every PC is going to get that PP, and most of my players are at least modestly interested in RP and character building, so they do put out SOME effort there, even if they could potentially just slack. Admittedly there have been those that just chose "Daggermaster" or whatever, but you can't make the horse drink, and the same player that did that also wrote up 5 pages of background for each of her characters and RPed them rather well, she just ran out of steam at PP, and that was OK. There are issues with the 4e approach. The "everyone hits level 11 at once" problem is the biggest issue I've had. You could get around it if the players don't all advance in lockstep, or you could delay some of them a bit as things work out in-game, etc but it is still not ideal. I don't have a real solution though. People have suggested using something more like 3e's Prestige Class solution. I dunno. I think the problem there is again no one specific 'path' to a given character element always works. Even with PrCs most characters are going to acquire them in the same level range I'd assume. Anyway, I dunno. I think some nuts are just hard to crack in RPGs. I have some ideas, but I am really avoiding the whole notion of writing yet another FRPG... lol. [/QUOTE]
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