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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6076702" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>I think the objection is more "if tanglefoot bags are so great that they can be as effective as swords, why aren't they the standard way of fighting ALL THE TIME?" It is just the old "oil flask problem" reborn. In pretty much every AD&D campaign some wag would decide to be clever and make molotov cocktails from oil flasks. Naturally, as DMs, we rewarded this industriousness with oil flasks which burst into flames and caused mayhem, yay player creative problem solving!!!! Until of course the next week when the party was armed to the gills with the damned things and every encounter was par boiled. Of course there were the inevitable DM counters (all the treasure burned up, danger of fire, monsters learn to use the same tactics, not always tactically applicable, etc), but that might at best curb the practice slightly. Truthfully there's a very good reason why armies and individuals throughout history rely on blades and such, they're the most effective type of weapons overall. Logically if you nerf them, you're nerfing the people who use them, and inventing equally effective replacements just runs the risk of leading to the oil flask silliness all over again.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think again the point is that if you want to have a magical thief type then there are vastly better ways to do it in 3e, and if you don't want to run that type why should the game gimp you? UMD was a horrible choice in any case as it required a lot of investment for a marginal payoff that was only marginally useful. </p><p></p><p>I think the general concept of "well, there are expensive alternatives you can rely on to get you through that one rare instance of this problem" is not BAD. OTOH if you want an obstacle that is overcome by non-combat means, make one. I thought making entire categories of common monsters into something you had to kludge around if you were class X was a bit awkward.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6076702, member: 82106"] I think the objection is more "if tanglefoot bags are so great that they can be as effective as swords, why aren't they the standard way of fighting ALL THE TIME?" It is just the old "oil flask problem" reborn. In pretty much every AD&D campaign some wag would decide to be clever and make molotov cocktails from oil flasks. Naturally, as DMs, we rewarded this industriousness with oil flasks which burst into flames and caused mayhem, yay player creative problem solving!!!! Until of course the next week when the party was armed to the gills with the damned things and every encounter was par boiled. Of course there were the inevitable DM counters (all the treasure burned up, danger of fire, monsters learn to use the same tactics, not always tactically applicable, etc), but that might at best curb the practice slightly. Truthfully there's a very good reason why armies and individuals throughout history rely on blades and such, they're the most effective type of weapons overall. Logically if you nerf them, you're nerfing the people who use them, and inventing equally effective replacements just runs the risk of leading to the oil flask silliness all over again. I think again the point is that if you want to have a magical thief type then there are vastly better ways to do it in 3e, and if you don't want to run that type why should the game gimp you? UMD was a horrible choice in any case as it required a lot of investment for a marginal payoff that was only marginally useful. I think the general concept of "well, there are expensive alternatives you can rely on to get you through that one rare instance of this problem" is not BAD. OTOH if you want an obstacle that is overcome by non-combat means, make one. I thought making entire categories of common monsters into something you had to kludge around if you were class X was a bit awkward. [/QUOTE]
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